Consumer problems I’d like to fix
August 19 2008 by Ellen Roseman
I spend my days helping people resolve their complaints with goods and services purchased from large companies. It’s frustrating for them and also for me, when I see the same issues come up again and again.
Here are a few things I’d like to change ASAP.
Why does the government allow unregulated sellers to knock on doors and encourage households to sign expensive and restrictive contracts for their gas and electricity needs? When door-to-door sellers ask to see utility bills, but why do people hand them over?
I want to see strict controls on this industry, not administered by the weak and ineffectual Ontario Energy Board, and mandatory plain-language contracts. The misrepresentation and deception must end, since it penalizes more vulnerable consumers — older people, immigrants to Canada and new homeowners. Why are people so trusting of those who can’t be trusted?
Why is negative option marketing still around? We’ve seen large banks and retailers use it to push upgraded credit cards on customers. Even in Ontario, where the law prohibits this tactic, it’s still going on. See the comments posted below about lawn care companies and their “evergreen contracts.”
Finally, I find it disgraceful that companies pay attention to me — because I work for Canada’s largest daily newspaper — and pay little or no attention to those who keep them in business. Average customers find their voices are not heard. There’s too much corporate focus on selling more, more and more — and insulating yourself from accountability for problems that crop up after the sale.
I wish people didn’t waste time waiting to speak to customer service reps who can’t help — and refuse to connect them to higher-level executives who can. I wish people didn’t tell me they’re losing sleep at night because of their intractable billing problems. Sometimes, they burst into tears on the phone.
Finally, I wish that governments in Canada treated consumer issues seriously. Politicians wade into the odd thing, such as high Canadian book prices or cell phone carriers that charge for incoming text messages. But it’s all in their quest for votes.
Why can’t they do the right thing for the right reason and really start protecting people from marketplace abuses?
ML
Aug 19 2008
I am curious to know if the following situation that I just experienced is considered negative option billing.
Last summer, I had my lawn sprayed for pests by a local lawn care service. I was not sure about what I was going to do with my lawn this summer, so I called the same company in early June to discuss this with the owner.
The owner was not in the office and did not return my call.
This past Friday I found a sign, from the same company, on my property saying the lawn had been sprayed, as it was last year.
I had not requested this service, nor did I say to do this, when I spoke with the secretary in June. The bill was in my mail box.
I finally spoke to the owner, who said he had the right to do what he did, but advised me to disregard the bill.
He gave me several reasons why he follows this practice. One was that he does not have enough time to call his 2,000 customers. And if he did not continue with the service on a yearly basis, his customers would be very upset with him.
He was rather defensive; he wanted to discuss the billing practices of cable companies, but I told him I was not interested. He said that his company was not a bad company.
I look forward to hearing your response.
PD
Aug 19 2008
We usually contract with a lawn care company every other year. Earlier this year, my husband made a number of calls to lawn care companies to get quotations and ensure they would provide the service he was looking for (including making sure that they would also cover the extra foot or so of grass that is actually on the neighbour’s property but abutting ours, as we cut the grass on both sides).
He spoke at length with The Weed Man, Dr. Green and another company from Milton whose name escapes me at the moment.
During the period of requesting proposals from these companies, we arrived home one day and found that our lawn had been fertilized. We were quite surprised, and in fact, it was that day that the company from Milton showed up. The salesman remarked that some companies run a scam where they will show up and provide a service even though it wasn’t requested and then harrass you for payment.
My husband promptly called Dr. Green and informed them that he had not entered into a contract with them and would not be paying for the service. The agent on the phone was not only unsympathetic, but quite rude - insisting that until he gave them his customer number, there was nothing that could be done.
Even the emphatic response that we were not customers and did not have a number would not budge Dr. Green. Some time later, a bill arrived in the mail.
By this time, we had signed a contract with The Weed Man (who by the way, were not the lowest bidder, but offered the best response and customer service).
My husband called his contact at the Weed Man asking for his thoughts. He was told this is a very unsavory practice that some companies engage in and we could expect them to threaten us with a collection agency.
Again, my husband called Dr. Green and informed them that he had no intention of paying for this unsolicited service. This fell on deaf ears.
Sure enough, at the end of this week, a Final Notice arrived from Dr. Green Lawn Services, saying that we owe $48.79 by Aug. 15, listing account number of 10459959 (it also says “Listing Amount $73.19?).
Never, in either of our careers of requesting proposals, have we had a company think that a request for proposal meant a signed contract.
However, Dr. Green states that they have a recording of my husband entering into a contract. Tellingly, they were unable to play that recording back to us.
(My husband recalls most of the conversation with this company, including their informing him that they would need a signed release from both of our neighbours in order for them to spray their sides of our lawns - but in no way did he enter into a contract with them.)
In our world, a contract includes an offer and an acceptance - to me this is a very underhanded scheme and one that has undoubtably victimized many people.
I’m sure that Dr. Green has people just pay these bills all the time, since the amount is low and who wants their credit rating damaged? However, this is just plain wrong.
Short of hiring a lawyer to send these people on their way, what recourse do we have to rid ourselves of these uninvited pests? I wonder how many people are being victimized by their ‘business’ practices?
SM
Aug 19 2008
I hope you can share a warning to your readers on a situation I have with Dr. Green. It has automatically renewed my service to the next year, even though I have verbally told them I was only asking for 1 year service. The onus is on the client rather then the service provider to ensure your voice is heard.
I feel this is cannot be legal and who knows how many people are roped into a service which they do not want the following year. There should at least be a mandatory call to let the clients know they will automatically provide you the service.
I am still out $50 after all this time. No one from Dr. Green has contacted me to follow up.
MT
Aug 19 2008
I am experiencing the most incredibly bad service I have ever had the misfortune to be involved with. The company is GreenLawn Canada - head office in Mississauga, Ont. (www.greenlawncare.com)
I have tried unsuccessfully to sort this matter out - never before have I been so frustrated - nor have I ever been so ignored. I did check the BBB website recently - thinking I might lodge a complaint - but seeing the high number of complaints logged there decided against it.
From the BBB’s site, I did get the principal’s name - Antoinette Melo. I have sent four emails, all without response. I have lost count of the number of times I have spoken to this company’s call centre. Here’s my story:
During summer 2007, GreenLawn provided lawn care to our home in Barrie, Ont. The season’s service was arranged as a result of a telemarketing campaign - paid for in advance and the service was delivered - all 6 applications plus an upsale on grub control.
Through the winter 2008, I would say that we received close to 100 telemarketing calls from GreenLawn - showing up on our call display day after day. We did not respond to any of them, choosing to make our own decision when we were good and ready to do so.
We did feel they did a good job in 2007 - our lawns were excellent. So in May, I called and signed up for 2008 - same package. This was paid in advance, same as last year.
When mid-May came and no service had been done, I called and was told our first application had been done April 23 (days before we had signed up for the 2008 service). After a number of calls, we were finally told via voicemail by the manager in Barrie, whose message is still in our mailbox - that the application had been done on someone else’s lawn by mistake.
His message did not say what they planned to do about this and in late May we came home to discover that we’d gotten our second application (with no commitment about the missing first). Despite numerous calls, we were unable to get any answers - were they going to issue a credit? This was when I started the email campaign - and throughout June called their call centre many times - still nothing!
Comparing this year to last, we should have had three applications by now. I have paid $239 and cannot get any answers. Our lawn is showing the effects of non-attention.
I cannot understand:
* how their service level deteriorated so dramatically in one year
* why they will not simply do the service calls and tell me how they plan to make up for the missed early spring one
* why the principal won’t acknowledge our issue and simply “fix it”.
This is very disturbing to us. In future, I will do a BBB check in advance of any such service arrangements and will make purchase decisions on that company’s track record in the complaint department! But based on the service provided last year, we felt we were in good hands.
Chris Ferguson, director of consumer protection branch, Ontario
Aug 19 2008
Under Ontario’s Consumer Protection Act (CPA), consumers can refuse to pay for goods and/or services they did not request.
This effectively prohibits negative option marketing — where a supplier delivers a good or starts a service and tells the consumer it will charge for the goods/services unless the consumer takes the initiative to cancel the goods/services.
In addition, the CPA sets rules to protect consumers from unwanted material changes to the goods or services being provided under an agreement for the ongoing supply of goods and services, such as lawn care or snow removal.
If the CPA rules are not observed, the consumer may treat goods or services that have been materially changed as unsolicited, with no obligation to pay. In fact, if a supplier has taken a payment for unsolicited goods or services, the consumer who made the payment may demand a refund within one year after having made the payment.
The Consumer Protection Act (CPA) allows contracts for “an indefinite period” so long as the amount and frequency of periodic payments is disclosed. Consumers may agree to retain a service provider or to accept goods for an ongoing, indefinite period, and if they do so, the onus would be on the consumer to terminate the contract.
However, the law sets out specific requirements for renewal, extension or amendments to contracts — in other words, if the contract is to be changed in any way, the consumer must be given notice of that fact, a description of the proposed changes and be provided the opportunity to accept or reject the changed contract.
If the initial contract included provisions allowing for amendment, renewal or extension (”ARE”), then the consumer has 30 days to respond to the ARE notice — no response means the changes are accepted and the consumer is bound by the renewed contract, including changes.
If the initial contract failed to include provisions allowing for ARE, then the supplier must get the consumer’s explicit consent to continue the contract — otherwise the consumer has no obligation to pay for goods/services received after the expiry date of the initial contract.
It is also our view that contracts cannot include provisions that bind consumers to accept future material, unspecified changes, such as a fitness club relocation “within a 10-mile radius” or a price hike, as a condition of entering into the contract. Consent for a material change must be obtained when the change is actually being proposed.
In these cases of lawn care contracts, the Ministry of Small Business and Consumer Services would be happy to determine how the CPA might apply to their situation.
Consumers with questions about negative option marketing or contract renewal requirements should contact the Ministry’s Consumer Services Bureau at 1-800-889-9768 or ontario.ca/consumerprotection.
Chris Ferguson aagain
Aug 19 2008
What if lawn care companies don’t bother to send a notice of annual renewal to you? Ellen, you asked if the law permitted them to keep billing you for services each year.
I think they may have the right to put the onus on YOU (consumer) to cancel.
I don’t think this is necessarily unfair IF the consumer signs a contract that (1) is clearly for an indefinite time period and (2) clearly states that the contract continues until the consumer opts out (and doesn’t impose an unreasonable cancellation notice period).
We don’t recomend the open-ended contracts, but they are not illegal. There are some consumers who frankly don’t want to be bothered with having to renew this and confirm that — “just tell me if anything changes”.
We could foresee lots of complaints from consumers if service providers simply cut them off for “failing to renew” or failing to respond affirmatively to a renewal notice, and that’s why the law is written the way it is.
CDS
Aug 19 2008
We are having a problem with Classic Products. We had a new metal roof installed in April 2005, with colour matched eavestroughs. The cost was $25,000.
One large 50-foot section of the trough collapsed this February. The heavy snow and ice accumulation damaged the trough. Our roof is the ONLY one in the neighbourhood to have suffered.
I believe snowguards prevent the ice build-up. They were installed by Classic at strategic points over the roof, but none were placed on the entire section on the west side where the trough was damaged.
Troughs do not break down in this manner. We’ve never had this problem for 30 years! Shall we say this was an engineering oversight.
As the sole contractor Classic is fully aware that they are responsible.
Norm Wells, the President, visited us in our home, diligently took us through all the benefits and technical virtues of this unique metal roof, covered by a transferable Lifetime Warranty. We were most impressed with the product, the presentation and the terrific testimonials from Canadian and American customers.
When I had a problem, Wells was too busy to talk to us.
On Feb. 14, I called Classic and reported the problem to “Romeo” and “Pietro” who promised to check this out after the snow melt.
On March 14, two installers showed up, inspected the damage and advised they should immediately install 21 snowguards to prevent a recurrence. They asked me for $400 for the work which I paid in good faith, much to my wife’s chagrin.
They promised their people would be back to repair the trough. Here’s a brief log of my follow-up calls:
March 31st, 1.30 pm: Called “Romeo” to fix trough.
April 8th, 11.30 am: Called “Romeo”. He said “Pietro” would call to book appointment.
April 10th, 10 am: Romeo said Pietro was away. He later called, said he was not familiar with problem, would look into it.
April 21st, 9.14 am: Norm Wells said he would talk to Romeo and have him get back to me. “They are very busy.”
April 21st, 12.03 pm: Pietro called to say the crew would be over in the next couple of weeks to replace troughs.
May 13th, 11.35 am: Called Pietro for status. He said he was waiting for a quote.
I spoke with “Cam” and asked for an invoice for the snowguards. He would check with “Jason Clarke”, service operations manager. Cam mailed the invoice same day.
May 15th, 11.45 am: Called Pietro for status. He was sending ”Dave” to inspect property and take measurements. He advised me the troughs had 5-inch apertures, not the standard 3-inch – but wider was better for the downspouts.
May 21st, 10.30 am: My wife left a message for Pietro. He called back to say he had left a message for Dave. At 1 pm, Dave called and asked what colour we were looking for. He promised to inspect Saturday.
May 24th: Dave visited, took measurements and samples for colour match. Asked if roof and trough were one order. He is a subcontractor for Classic. He would schedule work and get back to us.
June 3rd, 12.04 pm: Called Pietro for status. “Dave will replace trough. He’s looking for colour.”
June 10th, 9.30 am: Talked to Norm Wells. He put Jason on. I reviewed history of various calls to different people and asked for a firm date for the repairs. Dave called back the same day. Would do repairs next week, weather permitting.
June 30th: Called Dave and left message.
July 2nd, 11.35 am: Called Dave and left message.
July 3rd, 11.53 am: Called Jason. Said Dave was a no show. Jason said he would find another contractor.
July 4th, 2.38 pm: I called and left message for Jason. At 2.46 pm, Dave called to say he would come next week – Wednesday, Thursday or Saturday. He would call the night before. I asked him if he had colour match. He said yes.
July 21st, 9.15 am: Norm answered the phone! I expressed concern with lack of progress. He put me on hold. Pietro picked up my call. He said Dave would call me. He could not get material. He was looking for the right colour. From a new supplier.
I told Pietro 3 things: I did not want to talk to Dave. It was their responsibility to deal with the subcontractor. He had already found the colour match. What was I supposed to do after waiting all these months?
Pietro’s response was: “You will just have to wait. If you can’t wait, I can go to Home Depot and pick up white troughs and stick it on your roof!” He was argumentative and belligerent. This discussion ended on a sour note.
ALL WE WANT IS FOR THIS COMPANY, CLASSIC PRODUCTS, TO REPAIR AND PROPERLY REINSTALL THE BROKEN EAVESTROUGH IN THE CORRECT COLOUR.
We have been most patient despite the frustrations. Waiting for six months is just not acceptable.
Ellen, we would be most grateful if you could persuade Classic to keep their word.
CDS again
Aug 19 2008
ELLEN: YOU DESERVE A GOLD MEDAL!!!
I knew you would win. There was no way you would let Norm Wells off the hook.
He just called at 5 pm to tell me his associate contractor would call me on Monday to arrange with his crew to reinstall the trough.
Norm gave me his home phone number and asked me to call if there were any issues. I thanked him and had to ask: “Norm, what motivated you to call me?”
He said: “I got a call.”
I asked: “Who called you, Norm?”
He chuckled: “You know who.”
So you see Ellen, my faith in you was unwavering and vindicated.
I believe you should head for Beijing and send our Canadian athletes home, those poor things!!!
Thank you very much. You made my day. I will let you know when the job is done.
Jason Clarke, Classic Products
Aug 19 2008
I am the general manager of Classic Products. It is unfortunate that the problem has gone this far and I understand the homeowner’s frustration.
We have been growing at a pretty good rate and sometimes it’s hard to be hands on with every customer. We aren’t an eavestrough company, which is the root of our problem; we must depend on other companies to do any of that work we may need done.
We do not make it our normal practice any more to offer eavestroughs. In this instance a few years ago, we did. And as they said, they haven’t had problems with them for the last two winters or any problems with their old eaves for the 30 years prior.
The past winter was not a normal winter. The nature of our roof is for snow to slide off it and this winter there was a lot of snow to slide off.
Anyway, we hired David of Sunrise Roofing and Siding to take care of it and install their new troughs; he went to their home a couple of times and promised he would have it done. And we thought he was on top of it.
I was under the impression this matter was already resolved, until I had this email forwarded to me today.
I have since been in contact with another eavestrough company that will be contacting the consumers tomorrow, and should be installing something new by Monday or Tuesday. Norman Wells spoke to CDS and he told him we will be fixing the situation shortly.
Thank you and feel free to contact me with any questions.
Ernie
Aug 19 2008
The real problem seems to be that the two main sources of respite, the BBB and the media, are toothless and largely inaccessible, respectively. Where is the Ministry when we need them? Are we all to go the Small Claims Court route?
Grampa Ken
Aug 20 2008
We have more of these situations because we do not complain enough. That’s because there’s just so much to complain about and the results are frustrating.
In the interest of its citizens, government could establish an interactive complaints department and actively market the service (just like a big business) to the public for submissions of consumer complaints. A pipe dream but what a social benefit.
It must be made easier, in some way, for consumers to expose unethical business practices and get them stopped.
YL
Aug 20 2008
It appears that Air Canada has a serious problem ensuring that their youngest passengers can continue to travel safely after landing at their destination.
On three separate trips within a 6 month period, Air Canada failed to transport the car seats for my infant and 4 year old as follows:
Nov. 17, 2007 (Toronto to Palm Beach):
-Toddler car seat and base required for infant car seat do not arrive.
-Airport does not have a proper infant car seat for a 5 month old baby to loan us.
-We rent an infant car seat from National car rental at our own expense. (I feel even worse for the family of 5 who were taking a later flight to the Caribbean and do not have their car seats.)
-Delay at arrival airport with two kids totaled 2.5 hours.
-Rather than taking the kids to the beach, we spend all of Nov. 18th trying to deal with the disservice agents in India, play telephone tag with the airport delivery people and then sit and wait for the actual delivery.
-We end up being told to leave the loaner car seats outside our door. As I was up with the baby, I heard the delivery guys complete the exchange of car seats at 3:30 am, the night of the 19th.
Feb. 25, 2008, Toronto to Palm Beach:
-Car seats do not arrive.
-Airport lets us choose car seats from a room that has at least 25-50 loaner car seats. (I am suspicious of the quantity of loaner car seats in an airport as small as West Palm…)
-We hesitate but decide to use a toddler car seat for the now 8 month old baby, simply to avoid a longer wait at the car rental agency. The baby is wailing. He hasn’t slept in far too many hours.
-Delay at arrival airport with two kids totaled 2 hours due to a long line-up at “Lost Luggage”.
-Again we spend the whole first day of our vacation (we took an early flight to maximize our stay in the sunshine) and second day of a short trip, dealing with the uncaring customer care agents in India, sitting in our room waiting for the telephone call to confirm delivery and finally sitting and waiting for the delivery of the car seats.
April 26, 2008, Fort Lauderdale to Toronto:
-After waiting yet again until all the “irregular” luggage arrives, we unbelievably realize, along with three other families, that the car seats are not coming out.
The line-up at AC Baggage Claim is hazardous with furious parents. AC could not confirm if the car seats were on the flight or not. AC claims to be searching for them… we know better.
The kids are restless, but thankfully I am travelling with my husband and we take turns trying to entertain them. It is now 1.5 hours after we landed, dealt with customs, waited for our regular luggage and now this.
-As our car was parked at Pearson with a second set of car seats (we came prepared this time) and the kids were so tired, we just left the airport.
-Air Canada eventually called the next day to inform us that, by the way, we have your car seats and they were glad to deliver them right to our door (36 hours late).
I don’t need a bathing suit and toothbrush to get to a hotel safely with my kids from the airport, but I do need their car seats!
I am about to fly again and along with the multitude of preparations required when travelling with children, am I to assume that my car seats will likely not arrive with me at my destination??
I am copying Air Canada on this email, however I highly doubt it will make a difference to an organization that has yet to show its customers that it truly cares about systemic issues.
Don’t even get me started on other Air Canada problems like last year’s stroller policy or why they can’t seem to automatically credit Aeroplan miles for flights completed between West Palm and Toronto.
An apology would be nice, significant compensation would be nice, a guarantee that child safety will be prioritized by Air Canada over and above first class luggage would be even nicer.
JH
Aug 20 2008
I am writing you to tell you of my recent dealings with the Universal Energy Group (UEG).
On June 19, 2008, one of UEG’s sales agents visited my household. My roommate at the time (Kevin, who has since moved out) answered the door.
The agent told him he was an Ontario government employee and he was required to check energy bills for billing/rate compliance. He asked Kevin if he was authorized to make decisions in the household and Kevin replied “No, we’re just renters.”
After he was provided with the information he needed - which was a copy of my power bill solely in my name - the agent requested that Kevin sign a slip of paper to confirm the agent’s attendance at the address, and to prevent other “government employees” from also attending.
So indeed he signed and dated, assuming the slip was in fact exactly what it was, as he was told by the agent.
Knowing absolutely nothing of a signature on any form of paper, I received my power bill (to my surprise) and another slip in the mail stating that a UEG agent had visited my household on June 19, and I would be contacted via telephone by UEG within 10 business days. I was never contacted, so I just assumed they “went away”.
On Aug. 1, I received yet more correspondence from UEG. This time, however, it was a “Thank you for your application” letter, with a refund cheque of $25 attached to the bottom (”as promised”).
At this point, I knew something was incorrect about the situation, as I had never applied for any sort of price protection program, nor had I participated in any sort of correspondence with this corporation, so I phoned customer service. They advised me to email customer relations. So I did, that day, and faxed it as well.
I received an email in response on Aug. 2, and it told me that I would receive a letter within 15 business days detailing my early termination charges.
By now, I was having a difficult time understanding how I could be bound to a contract, when I hadn’t even spoken to anyone involved, let alone signed anything.
After many hours of phone calls (all documented), including one during which the representative of customer relations played back to me the reaffirmation phone call placed to Kevin on his cell phone (which I was shocked to hear), I received a fax of the signed contract.
There are two distinct handwritings. The first one is Kevin’s, of his signature and the date. The second one had filled in the rest of the entire contract after the signature had been obtained, including checking off “Spouse.”
I am not married and have never been married, nor am I common-law or have ever lived common-law, nor do I share billing responsibility with any other person. In fact, as of Aug. 1, 2008, Kevin no longer resides at that address, his tenancy equaling less than a year.
UEG is requesting that I provide them with my income tax return to prove my marital status, as well as a pay stub from Kevin’s employer to show his place of residence.
Ellen, what do you suggest I do?
RD
Aug 20 2008
Universal Power had two sales reps come to our door about six months ago. They told us electricity rates will go up almost immediately, we need to be on a plan to save money. Rates will be going up very similar to natural gas prices, they said.
They presented information that all indicated rates will be increasing substantially. They said they will not be offering these prices at a later date, so if I do not sign the contract now I will be looking at a higher rate down the road.
It’s been six months and my utility, Burlington Hydro, still charges 5 cents per kWh. The only difference is Universal Power’s rate is 7.99 cents per kWh.
We’ve have been deceived by Universal Power. We were paying $220 with Burlington Hydro and are now paying $350.
This contract should be void with no penalty because all information was based on lies, deception and scare tactics, which I’m sure the reps are very familiar with to get the sale.
Another thing I would like to add is the contact is in my son’s name and he has been out of work since April of this year. I’ve been running the house on a shoestring budget and cannot afford these ridiculous financial jumps. I am the only one bringing in a salary, trying to keep the house going without losing it and it’s getting hard with so many other things going up.
Universal Power sent us a letter the other day saying we would have to pay $677.54 to break the contract. They called my son today and said they will not break the contract unless this is paid.
If I’m have trouble paying their outrageous bill, what’s would make them think I have an extra $677.54? I find this to be no different than a pyramid scam which is illegal. How is it that this scam is not stopped just like the rest of them? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, when I spoke to Burlington Hydro, they said normal cancellation fees are between $200 to $300.
AB
Aug 20 2008
We know consumers are perpetually angry at airlines for service and price hike issues, but this story really takes the cake.
It’s a story that will surely generate interest, and if the airline in question is sufficiently shamed by public exposure, it and other carriers might make some policy adjustments and treat their customers a bit more humanely in the future.
The story:
A husband and wife booked a flight on US Airways for October 2007 to join the husband’s parents on a vacation at a cost of $1,008. Then, the wife’s father suffered an out-of-town fall and broke his neck.
He went into intensive care, was med flighted home, and eventually died on October 15. During this ordeal, the wife cancelled her and her husband’s flight, and asked US Airways for a refund.
She was denied, but the agent advised her to write to the refunds department. She did so, including with her letter a copy of her father’s death certificate and also sharing the following information.
She had missed a great deal of work during the 2 months of her dad’s hospitalization, her family had expended $10,000 on the medvac flight to get her father home, and she and her husband were not going to be able to reuse their tickets any time in the next year; the vacation opportunity was over, and the lost income plus the $10,000 hit her family had suffered precluded any travel plans for quite a while.
US Airways denied the refund, merely repeating boilerplate stating that the husband and wife had a year from the date of booking (not the travel date, mind you) to reuse the tickets, after of course paying a $100 per-ticket change fee.
The wife then wrote directly to Doug Parker, CEO of US Airways and cc’d president Scott Kirby to plead her case. The result was the same answer, again from a customer relations rep. The wife then filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, but the file was closed after BBB contacted US Airways and was unable to receive a reply from them.
To add insult to injury, last week US Airways emailed the wife saying “Our records indicate that 14,954 miles [in your Dividends Miles account] were forfeited because your last activity date was more than 18 months ago.”
Apparently, buying $1,000 worth of tickets and then being denied a refund when the tickets couldn’t be used, doesn’t qualify as activity worthy of keeping one’s status as a dividend miles member.
Here’s a great quote from US Airways Passenger Refunds Representative Samantha Gartung’s letter to the wife: “US Airways embraces an optimistic outlook regarding passengers who are unable to travel due to unfortunate circumstances. We remain confident that you will be able to utilize the ticket for your travel enjoyment.”
Isn’t it comforting to have an airline express confidence that you can spend money with them?
Oh, and yes, the wife is me.
Joanna Alpajaro
Aug 21 2008
On the issue of negative billing, can you tell me what you think about this situation?
I am a part-time student at University of Windsor. My tuition for the fall for my online course was due on Aug. 15, 2008. When I reviewed the online information system, I noticed there was an additional $140 charge for drug/dental coverage.
I emailed the cashier’s office immediately to ask for an explanation, which basically was as follows:
The OPUS (Organization of Part-time University Students) drug and dental plan is a new mandatory fee that every part-time undergraduate student is required to pay up front. If, however, you have coverage elsewhere, and would like to opt out, you can opt out online in the month of September only at: http://www.uwindsor.ca/opus. The OPUS office will then issue your refund. If you have any further concerns, you can contact the OPUS office at: 519-253-3000 ext. 3603.
Would this be considered negative billing? I neither requested nor do I want drug/dental coverage, as I have ample coverage through my husband’s benefits. This would in effect “loan” the University my money interest-free for a month or so until the refund cheque would be paid.
The cashier’s office also confirmed that by not paying, I am subject to interest on the amount on a daily basis.
I also don’t like how the onus is on the student to opt out and the time frame is so short. I am assuming I will have to go through this inconvenience each semester when I register for a course.
I would love to know what you think, Ellen.
Thanks,
Joanna
KT
Aug 21 2008
While on holiday at the family cottage near Kincardine, I received a call from a Direct Energy contracted call centre, trying to convince me to switch my gas supplier to Direct Energy.
The cottage is 3-season (wood stove and electric), and I think there is not yet natural gas service in the Kincardine area, though the call guy knew there was service in the “Goderik” area, so I must be fair game for a call.
I have worked in the natural gas industry for many years, so I engaged in discussion for a while and was impressed with the vigour at which it was argued that a switch to the Direct Energy 5 year price protection plan would result in certain savings over any arrangement I had (as they assumed) with Union Gas.
The fellow stuck to that line, even though I pointed out my observations over decades about gas price cycles. I said Direct Energy was likely unable to guess the future better than others. Finally I got annoyed and ended the call.
The week before, I had received a call from another Direct Energy representative trying to get me to switch cottage power supply to Direct Energy.
That fellow really had no clue and got confused when I asked him to explain what exactly he was trying to get me to do (e.g. go off script), and why (of course, these things are all phrased to suggest that the consumer has a limited time opportunity to lock into savings, and imply that this is something that has to be done).
He could not even explain clearly to me what was my current supply arrangement that he was wanting me to change from. Eventually, =he put me through to his supervisor, who admitted he was not with Direct Energy, but a call centre. He was marginally more informed and clear what they were trying to sell, but still could not explain in a manner that would have any meaning for a consumer without my industry background.
When I asked for information about which regulator to complain to about their sales techniques, he could not tell me. Instead, he tried to argue with me, and eventually I had a similar exchange with the ‘floor manager’, before we mutually decided to end the call.
I was ready to “waste my time” (my wife’s comment) in these exchanges after our experience with a similar Direct Energy sales effort at our home in Calgary last winter. A Direct Energy labelled rep came to the door and insisted to my wife that our local gas supply arrangement (gas from Direct, at regulated rate) had to be updated.
My wife (witnessed by my 21 year old daughter, who was hesitant to leave my wife alone with these two aggressive reps) stated clearly that she did not want to change her arrangement. But they insisted that she had to update something, so she eventually agreed to sign what turned out to be one of these long-term, fixed-price arrangements with the non-regulated arm of Direct Energy.
When I returned from a business trip to Quebec, I was most annoyed to hear what had occurred and promptly cancelled with Direct Energy, switched fully to Enmax and filed a detailed written complaint to Alberta regulators. They did investigate, and I guess listened to the recording of my wife agreeing to the “same supply arrangement”, but did not have enough detailed evidence to fully pursue any charge or whatever, especially after Direct Energy advised that the responsible sales fellows were no longer with the organization.
In Alberta, one of the problems is that it is rather hard to differentiate in their written material between the regulated and the non-regulated arms. This clearly is done on purpose. It left my wife confused, since she knew our bill came from Direct Energy. So with their badges, she felt inclined to listen to them argue that a change in paperwork was essential.
Last night (in Calgary) my wife hung up on another Direct Energy caller.
Clearly, Direct Energy is making a big marketing push across Canada to lock people into long term energy supply (both gas and electricity) arrangements by convincing people that they will save big over the regulated rates.
My career observations are that energy prices are likely to remain highly variable in cycles of at least several years and I have been inclined to stick with the regulated rate.
I have become absolutely disgusted with the carefully designed marketing tactics of Direct Energy, where they leverage off the complexity of the business to convince (really trick) average consumers to sign up with them long term.
While I think the long term Direct Energy plans ultimately will be more or less competitive, their dishonest tactics do buy them market share.
However, interestingly enough, in our Alberta situation, the Enmax supply option I did sign up for was cheaper than what Direct Energy sold to my wife, despite their story of great savings.
I doubt many people understand what they agree to sign up for with Direct Energy and find it hard to believe that a division of a large multi-national is stooping to such tactics.
Presumably other marketers are also taking the opportunity to lock in customers at an opportune time. Obviously, as the regulated rate now catches up to rising prices, the opportunity is ripe, but of course the lag works the other way too.
Though it’s still hard to believe after early summer that energy prices will drift down over next few years, we have seen it happen before.
Perhaps I am biased from working with a regulated utility. But my sense is that when all is said and done through a full cycle, one is probably better well off sticking to the regulated rate, and probably with less hassle.
That being said, if one was confident of a big price run-up coming over several years, then it might make sense to lock in an unregulated rate.
But that is speculation, and I would rather speculate in other things; for example, one might want to speculate on growth of the stock of the companies doing such marketing.
BCG
Aug 21 2008
I had a travel complaint with Sunwing, but I got nowhere with TICO (Travel Industry Council of Ontario). I finally was able to get my money back, instead of travel vouchers. Tell your readers to bypass TICO and go straight to the Better Business Bureau.
Originally, the BBB didn’t want to take my complaint because I had gone to TICO and they have no jurisdication over a government agency. But they decided to take me on and leave out the TICO response and resolved the issue.
People just have to be persistent as I was and you will get your money back. But let’s face it, companies don’t want
to give back money unless they absolutely have to and we Canadians are pretty placid when it comes to taking action when not treated properly, right?
I feel a need to alert the public about tour operators that have no respect for you and feel they can bump your accommodations upon arrival and give you no other alternative once you show up at the hotel.
We were told at that time that they were overbooked and we were being sent elsewhere for 2 days. Upon arriving home, we lodged a complaint with the tour operator. They tried to appease us with a minimal voucher we could use in the next year — and only with them.
We had planned the vacation three months in advance with Sunwing to avoid any last minute problems. They collected interest on our money and booked with the hotel one week before our departure Feb. 12th. At that time, the hotel was full.
We were not notified before departure and were sent to a family resort they thought was an upgrade. But to us, it was a downgrade. We are in our late 50s and early 60s and were given rooms in a family resort with small children in adjoining rooms. We got absolutely no rest or relaxation for the two days we were there.
The point is that travellers must be warned that when booking with tour operators it is “Buyer Beware” and that TICO backs the tour operators. This offer of vouchers upon your return is nothing more than a scam to encourage you to give them more business.
Why would we want to give Sunwing more of our business and money when they didn’t respect the business we already gave them? Am I going to give them another $3,000 so that I can claim the $200 voucher they gave us?
Maybe I can get enough people to sign a petition or start a class action lawsuit to put a stop to this lack of respect when it comes to our vacations. We shouldn’t have to worry about whether we are going to get what we paid for or not.
As with any other goods or service we buy, we as consumers should expect to be reimbursed fully by tour operators when they are not able to accommodate the travel arrangements that were paid for in advance. It is the least they can do under the circumstances.
Ellen Roseman
Aug 24 2008
Joanna, you asked about negative option billing for university fees, such as a dental plan. I agree this fits into the category of things we’re talking about.
However, a university is NOT a business. It’s in the nonprofit sector, so it’s probably exempt from the provincial laws on consumer transactions.
I think the university’s governing body must have approved of this arrangement. Here’s the reasoning:
–It’s a good thing for students to have insurance coverage for drug and dental bills.
–If you asked students to pay voluntarily, most would say no. They’re stretched enough financially.
–But if you force them to pay and allow them to opt out, many won’t bother. They’ll stay in the insurance plan through laziness or inertia.
–Insurance companies want as many people as possible to enrol, since this helps bring down the rates and the risk. So they love negative option marketing.
–The only people who are disadvantaged as those who don’t need the coverage (like you). They have to work to get out and also pay interest on their outstanding “debt” for a month or two. Maybe you can try to organize the non-participants to get a refund of the interest payments.
ex-310-Bell
Aug 26 2008
I took my last call as a 310-Quebec rep a few days ago. I’ll tell you right now that if the vendor is well-run and the rep is experienced and competent, it should not matter if they’re internal or vendor. There were a fair number of agents at my site who routinely outperformed internal agents…
Mind you, there’s another centre where I live that does 310-Ontario, and that place is apparently a basket case (from what friends of mine who work or have worked there have told me, which is funny given as how they have fancy new computers and stuff compared to us).
Direct Energy is equally culpable, whether the agent who is unable to perform a routine task is internal or a vendor, just as Bell is equally culpable whether mediocre quality control and false information is internal or from a vendor.
ex-310-Bell
Aug 26 2008
The United States government has allowed a firm based in the United Arab Emirates (a country that I knew sucked the moment I heard that people are thrown in jail for 20 years if they’re caught with a fraction of hashish on their person) to manage some of its ports.
If things go bad and the American people get up in arms over it, I certainly hope their government is ethical and responsible enough to accept the blame for outsourcing to a shoddy company.
FF
Aug 26 2008
There should be a law that any and all commissions not be paid to door to door salespersons until six months after the contract has been signed without any customer complaints.
Day to day, such salespersons’ remuneration should only include hourly minimum wage, plus a bare survival per diem expense allowance for work more than 30 kilometres from the salesperson’s home office.
As a sop to the energy vending companies, the utiity bills should have to include, say four times a year, each vendor’s sales brochure/flyer.
Personally, I have obtained my energy contracts after careful research and personally contacting the selected energy vendor.
I an very rude to any salesperson at my door.
AF
Aug 26 2008
I have experienced a different type of credit card “peril”.
I recently purchased tickets and insurance from an online travel agency called CostJet.com. Due to what the company referred to as a “computer glitch,” my credit card was charged over and over again, until it was maxed out for three days in a row.
TD Visa never called me to inform me of this activity, but I found out when CostJet.com sent me an email on the first evening, saying that my card had been declined.
TD Visa was only willing to reverse the charges if the merchant would call with authorization numbers — but the merchant was the one continuously charging my Visa without authorization.
I finally got a hold of a supervisor from CostJet.com, who called TD Visa, and the charges were reversed once. Later that day, new charges appeared once again on my Visa from the same company charging it over and over again.
Again, the supervisor called TD Visa, eventually got the charges reversed and told Visa to ensure that any such charges were reversed as this overcharging was due to a “computer glitch”.
However, the following day, I discovered that my credit card had been again maxed out by CostJet.com, charging me repatedly for the tickets and insurance.
I again called TD Visa’s security department, who said to call the merchant again, because there was nothing they could do, despite the fact that this had been happening for the past two days.
I spent several hours on the phone with TD Visa - mostly on hold, for three days in a row (as that is how many times my card was maxed out). The representatives were saying there was nothing they could do until the transactions would be posted or until the merchant (who was charging me over and over again) would call them, again, to reverse the charges.
They said if I could not reach the merchant, I could dispute the charges, but that would take seven business days.
I asked to speak with the resolutions department finally, after getting nowhere with the security department. A representative from the TD Visa resolutions department called CostJet.com herself, managed to get through to a supervisor, and two hours later reversed the charges.
After that, I cancelled my Visa and asked to have a new one issued, something that should have been suggested to me during the days previous, as this was happening for three consecutive days.
As it stands right now, TD Visa does not guarantee that cancelling the Visa will ensure that no further charges were incurred on the last Visa. They did tell me that blocking the Visa does not help in situations like this, because I gave CostJet.com my Visa number to begin with. The fact that they used my card over and over again until it maxed out three times is of no interest to them.
I am disturbed by TD Visa’s lack of accountability, unwillingness to help (depending on which department you are lucky enough to reach) and by the fact that nobody called me when the same charges were charged over and over on my credit card for three days in a row. It was clear that nobody from TD Visa was monitoring this activity to flag it as suspicious.
What I’ve learned is that the credit card issuer never appeared to be interested in helping me. They were more interested in patronizing me and rushing me off the phone.
Every agent I spoke with appeared to be reading from a script, instead of recognizing that my circumstances were different than the norm.
As far as CostJet.com is concerned, it’s actually an American-based travel agency that offers low rates through mail-in rebates once your flight is booked. I never heard of them, until I was looking for low fare tickets to fly to Los Angeles on Aug. 26.
Given that my husband and I were looking to travel over the last long weekend of the summer, fares were extremely high and we were happy to find such a good deal. Through CostJet.com, we booked flights with US Airways and Delta, both legitimate airlines. I booked the flights and thus provided my credit card number to CostJet.com.
While waiting for my confirmation from CostJet.com, one of their employees sent me an email telling me my credit card had been declined, which is how I found out about the repeated charges to my card. CostJet.com maxed out my credit card.
TD Visa never called me to inform me that any suspicious activity was taking place, despite the fact that the same charges for the tickets ($706.07) and travel insurance ($49.04)were being charged to my Visa every few minutes until it reached the available credit limit.
My credit card was being charged for three days in a row this way, and each time the charges were reversed, CostJet.com continued to repeatedly charge my visa until it maxed out.
The frightening aspect of this situation is that even when this happened for the third day in a row, TD Visa never called me to report any suspicious activity.
In fact, the only reason I found out about this happening, aside from the initial email from CostJet.com, was because I checked my available credit card balance online.
Furthermore, each time the credit card was maxed out it was equally, if not more difficult to get the charges reversed by TD Visa.
This experience was extremely frustrating and at this point, I would be satisfied in knowing that my story may help prevent others from finding themselves in a similar situation.
AF again
Sep 3 2008
I heard back from TD Visa’s Customer Care centre. The rep had listened to all my conversations (or read the transcripts of the calls) and confirmed that what I said had transpired.
He said this was a coaching issue and the agents would receive further training. He also said if my TD Visa card had an annual fee, they would have waived it. But since I don’t have an annual fee, there was nothing further he could do except apologize and assure me that should I need any further assistance, I would be able to contact him.
He was very nice and professional in the way in which he handled this matter. However, it did not change the gruelling process of reversing the repeated charges from costjet.com to my Visa or the fact that it happened for three consecutive days.
I did learn some things during this process about TD Visa:
1. The call centre that gave me the most problems is located in India. When you call, you may get a Canadian call centre or the Indian call centre. It’s supposedly a random chance each time, although most of my calls ended up being received by the Indian call centre.
2. When you’re speaking to the Indian call centre, your calls are not always logged in the system. Although calls are supposedly taped, they are harder to trace by the management. If the representative with whom you’re speaking makes a note, the calls are more easily traced. But if not, the agent has no record of your previous conversation.
3. In one of the calls, I was hung up on by an Indian call centre representative. This call could not be located or traced. The rep didn’t offer me any explanation as to why. It became a moot point.
To be honest, this is not the first issue I’ve had with TD Bank as an institution. To be fair, TD did eventually correct their mistakes. However, each time it was a lengthy, bureaucratic, stressful process.
It is very disconcerting that TD Visa did not file a lost report until I insisted they do so on the third day. They did not block my card after the first set of unauthorized charges maxed out my card, and said blocking my card wouldn’t stop the repeated charges.
Despite the same situation repeating itself, the agents would not reverse the charges without following a certain protocol, even when it had been established several times that the charges were not authorized and should have been reversed.
I’m hoping that what happened with my TD Visa being charged repeatedly for three consecutive days by costjet.com, and all the aggravation I experienced with TD’s horrible customer service while reversing the charges can serve as a warning to customers.
Take control and be more careful when giving out your credit card information. Realize that the Visa company will not always protect you, as they didn’t in my case.
Kelly Hechler, TD Bank spokeswoman
Sep 3 2008
Here is the response explaining why our customer was repeatedly charged for an airline ticket. Sounds like a system glitch at the travel site. We could have been more helpful, though, as outlined below:
“The cardholder was dealing with an online airline trying to book tickets. Due to their system error, multiple authorizations were put through.
“The merchant did acknowledge their system glitch. The merchant did call to advise us to reverse one set of authorizations, which was done on our end. However, the repeated authorizations continued to go through and her available credit was used up.
“It was only on the third day that cardholder was advised by us that an option she could exercise was to block the account (as fraud) and transfer to another card. Another option we could have presented was to give her a temporary credit limit increase.
“Other than that, it was a merchant error and one we had no control over. With that said, we could have made it a better experience for her by suggesting the above noted options.
“Coaching has been delivered to the staff that had handled her account, so as to think outside the box.”
AF’s response
Sep 3 2008
In hindsight, TD now say that certain steps could have been taken to prevent the repeated charges on my credit card. I believe they are willing to admit they made a mistake and speak of coaching issues.
However, are they only coaching the particular individuals with whom I dealt? What if I get a different agent who has not received this updated coaching?
Why are such important call centres as the security department based in India, where there are constantly connection problems? I was hung up on several times.
I spent several hours on the phone for three consecutive days, feeling completely frustrated, overwhelmed and scared that something like this could happen - and TD’s response is that they are sorry.
I’m not sure if that reflects ‘care’ since the apology is coming after the fact and after I wrote a lengthy complaint letter.
Ultimately, we can’t turn back time, but I believe that people should be aware of what happened to me, in order to stay in control of their credit card balances and not rely on TD Visa to inform them or protect them from such “computer glitches” or fraud as I experienced.
I do appreciate your devoting effort to getting a response from TD. Maybe this situation will cause TD to gain some awareness over their lack of customer service and devote considerable effort to improving it, aside from offering an apology after the fact.
DF
Sep 25 2008
I came across at least two columns of yours since April that mentioned Universal Energy (also going by the name of Universal Power) when I was Googling the company. I had a disturbing visit from them last night.
I’m amazed that, after all the media warnings about never showing your bills to a door-to-door canvasser, this company is having enough success to waste its resources sending people door to door.
I’ll just paste in the complaint I emailed to Universal Energy, as well as their infuriating response. I hope that other people won’t be bullied by their aggressive tactics.
If the man who knocked on my door last night is representative of their door-to-door tactics/salespeople, then I’m certain that many people were likely bullied into signing contracts they may later regret.
Anyway, here is the complaint I sent to their customer service people:
Hello. I would like to formally lodge a complaint.
At 4:30 p.m. today, one of your canvassers rang my doorbell. When I answered the door, he started out friendly enough, so instead of telling him right away that I wasn’t interested, I listened to his spiel.
After he asked to see my current gas bill, I explained that I did not feel comfortable showing anyone a gas bill and that I’d be happy to read over any informational material he might have and check my bill myself.
At this point, he became very patronizing and rude. He got on the defensive and started speaking very quickly, asking me what exactly was on my bill that I didn’t want him to see.
I told him that my name and my current provider’s account number were on there. He interrupted me and rolled his eyes and asked me if I knew that 400,000 of these were printed and there were no privacy issues.
At that point, I told him he had lost me because he was being rude. His response was to yell at me as he was walking away: “Have fun with your bill.”
I am certain that since you are in the business of canvassing strangers, you are aware of the many warnings about scams that warn people to NEVER show their bills to strangers because they can use the information to switch your provider.
I have never heard of Universal Power/Energy. Why on earth would I show your canvassers any information like this? Surely your company could simply provide consumers with the literature necessary for us to check our bill ourselves.
I would appreciate it if you followed up with me in your dealing with this complaint. I am certain that had my husband answered the door, your canvasser never would have resorted to such aggressive and rude behaviour. He is a liability to your company.
——————————————————————————————
This is Universal Energy’s customer service response:
Dear Mrs. DF,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. We appreciate that you have taken the time to provide us with suggestions on how we can serve you better.
If you have any additional inquiries or require further assistance, please contact our Customer Service Department toll free at 1-866-900-2373, Monday to Friday 9am-9pm and Saturday & Sunday 10am-6pm EST, and someone would be more than happy to assist you.
——————————————————————————————-
Clearly the company is not the least bit concerned with the actions of its salespeople. I’m just glad that I was strong enough to stand firm and that I knew better than to show him my bill.
Anyway, thanks for keeping us consumers informed.
AF’s latest response
Sep 25 2008
I want to tell you that after the story came out about my dealings with TD Visa, a representative called me and offered me compensation in the form of a $100 gift certificate from a vendor of my choice. I received it in the mail today.
I really do appreciate everything you’ve done to help me, and I just wanted to let you know of this compensation, as it was all thanks to you.
I hope that this might help others who find themselves in similar situations and I am very grateful that there are individuals like yourself who advocate on consumers’ behalf.
http://www.thestar.ca/comment/columnists/article/492186
DB
Nov 3 2008
I recently read an article you wrote on Jan. 31, 2007, “Shop around before you sign energy contract.”
Even if I had read that article sooner, it would never have helped the situation we find ourselves in. You see, many people trapped in these contracts have no idea they are even signing contracts.
The situation is all too common in Ontario today. Earlier this year, I had a man knock at my door. He introduced himself by saying “Hello. I am with the hydro company and I am here about the new meter that will be installed in your home to keep your hydro rates down.” Although a little confused, I said “oh, you’re installing a new meter?”
His comment was “Yes, and I just need your signature on a document so we can get started.” This confused me, since I work in the electrical industry and know something about demand meters and about the companies who are trying to get folks to sign a contract for long term service, so again I asked “You are with Kitchener-Wilmot Hydro?”
His response was, “Yes I am with your local hydro company.” I again asked “Kitchener-Wilmot Hydro?” I asked for identification (he was wearing it around his neck, but I could not read it from where I was standing). Then I discovered he was actually with a company called Ontario Energy Savings Corp. I was incensed! Angry to the nth degree by his deceptive tactics… and I asked him to leave my property immediately!
I called my local hydro to be sure it had nothing to do with their actually changing my meter and I called the police. The police tell me they were doing nothing illegal. I followed him to be sure my elderly neighbours didn’t get taken in. They too were fooled into thinking he was with our local hydro company, but thankfully they signed nothing.
But that is not the end of the story. I recently got married and a bill came addressed to my new wife from a collection agency looking for $650.32 on behalf of Ontario Energy Savings Corp.
She had no idea who these people were and said she would never knowingly sign a contract with any company for 5 years, especially when she was getting married in only a few months from the supposed date the contract began (Sept. 20, 2007).
When I was pressing to discover how she was fooled, she told me that she did remember a man coming to the house from Waterloo North Hydro to discuss stabilizing her hydro rates. He wanted her to sign a document, which he described as nothing important, when she said she would take it and read it over.
She insists she has never heard of Ontario Energy Savings. Yet they expect us to pay $650.32 for breach of contract. She obviously signed through this man’s deceptive and deceitful practices. Some savings! Eh?
I have read over the policies and guidelines laid out by the Ontario Energy Board for behaviour for these companies. I respectfully submit that companies such as this one do not follow the guidelines or represent themselves honestly. They look for unsuspecting people who they can trick into believing they are with local hydro companies.
Rather than saving anyone in the province money, these companies are actually committing wholesale rape against our citizens. It is easy to say “Buyer Beware” but the laws in Canada should not allow companies to exist who employ such tactics.
I was told, by way of an excuse, by the OEB that these people hire commissioned salesman so they have no control over what they say at the door. It isn’t the companies’ fault! That comment just made me want to jump off a bridge or poke a hot stick in my eye! What is the matter with these bureaucrats?
I have had discussions with many, many people since the day that man came to my door and almost fooled me into signing something I did not want or even understand I was signing. I have discovered that hundreds, and undoubtedly thousands of people, are in the same boat I am in.
The utility companies I have discussed this with tell me they get calls everyday from people who have been bilked by these door-to-door sellers. I do not know how to stop them and our MPPs don’t seem to know either, despite the fact that the most of them agree it is becoming a very big problem. In fact, one MPP told me he sat in on a call one of his constituents had and learned firsthand of their deceptive practices, but is unable to do anything!
Who will be next? You? Your mother, your sister or brother? I’ll bet, if you ask, there are a dozen close friends or relatives in the boat I am in.
BP
Nov 3 2008
Over our 48 years of marriage, my husband and I travelled quite a lot, both for business and keeping family ties. We saved our points for our retirement years and most of these points were on my husband’s card because he booked most of our flights.
Sadly, he died this year. I contacted Aeroplan and asked them to transfer our points onto my card, explaining the circumstances.
They charged me $2,000 to transfer our 200,000 points into my name and charged this to my Mastercard. I wrote to them to say that I thought this fee was excessive. We had paid a lot of money for our tickets over many years and these points were between a husband and wife.
I then received quite a snippy phone call, telling me they would cancel their fee but I would forfeit the points. No other appeal route was offered and I don’t know how to deal with this “highway robbery”.
After you wrote to Aeroplan, I received another call from another supervisor at Aeroplan, reiterating their first message that “this is their policy and nothing can or will be done.”
If that is the case, widows certainly need to be warned about this predator. Most of them will be just like me –consumed with grief and trying to do everything right, including telling everyone who needs to know that their husband is dead.
Banks and internet providers, even the tax department, are kind and helpful as they convert one’s official status from “married” to “widowed”. No one else has behaved as Aeroplan and raided my remaining assets.
Apparently, honesty is not the best policy in this case. If I had pretended my husband was still alive, I could have used his points as easily as if he was still travelling with me, or I could have given them free of charge to friends or family.
So, if this is a battle that can’t be won, could you possibly warn other vulnerable survivors?
I paid for the points. Having previously promised to help with family travel to a wedding, it would have been sad to renege. And we’ve had sufficient sadness for this year.
JoAnne Hayes, Aeroplan spokeswoman
Nov 3 2008
For privacy reasons, I cannot speak about a member’s specific situation. However, I can tell you that Aeroplan has been responsive and has been in touch with this member a couple of times.
Aeroplan’s terms and conditions state that Aeroplan Miles are personal and cannot be assigned, traded, willed or otherwise transferred.
However, for compassionate reasons, Aeroplan’s business practice enables the transfer of miles at a cost of 1 cent per mile.
Alex
Dec 2 2008
Last September, a woman Soliciting for Universal Power appeared at the door of an apt I was renting with my girlfriend in Kingston, Ontario. She was very vague about the entire thing, and after asking her to repeat herself several times, I felt confident that she was actually working for Utilities Kingston (which obviously was inaccurate, but this is what her lies led me to believe). I couldn’t understand her claims about fixing our utilities rates etc, so she asked me to get a copy of our last utilities bill so that she could point out the rate we were paying, and then explain what we could be paying under the direct energy plan. Apparently while doing this, she copied down our account number and other information. Having still no idea what she was talking about, but realizing that it was something involving a 5-year plan, I declined to sign, telling her that we would be residing there only one year.
She convinced me to sign by (falsely) informing me that my signature did not lock me into a contract, but that it was just giving them permission to contact us by telephone on Nov 11 2007 to further solicit our involvement in the plan. She also said that it was so that they could send us a cheque for $20 (for which we had no interest and didn’t cash).
On Nov 11 2007, Universal Power called asking me why we hadn’t cashed the cheque. I told them that I had heard that cashing the cheque is a way of confirming the contract, one that we had no interest in entering into. The woman on the other end of the phone attempted to harass me into entering into the agreement, but I am 100% certain that at no point did I give consent (rather, I explicitly stated that we wanted nothing to do with them, we hadn’t cashed the cheque and we did not give consent). At this point I thought it was all over.
In June we move apts and are now living somewhere that the Utilities is included in the rent. So obviously we cancelled our Utilities account in June. Tonight, over a year since the original phone conversation, my girlfriend got a call from a collections agency saying not only did we owe Universal Power approximately $811 for early cancellation in June, for interest since then, but also that her credit rating has been ruined. At no point had we received any evidence that we were in a contract (whether it be by mail or telephone). As far as we knew, we had luckily escaped this via the phone call last Nov 2007.
We called Universal Power, and at first they couldn’t even locate our file (even with our account number). They continued to inform us that we 1) signed the contract at the door (which is true to an extant, but it was entirely under false pretenses because the saleswoman misrepresented herself) and that 2) they have a recording of us verbally agreeing on Nov 11 2007 (which is entirely false… if they listened to that recording it would be my voice telling them “not interested”).
Upon telling them that we are students at Queen’s University, they were surprised and said that students could not legally enter into this contract; however, because we were originally approached on Sept 1st (days before classes started) we were technically not considered students, and had therefore been entered into the contract anyway (so far as I understand).
When we told them that we aren’t paying Utilities now because it is included in our lease, the man we were speaking to, Jasper (”as in Jasper Alberta” he told us), kindly informed us that there may have been a mistake. Because we aren’t at a location where we are paying Utilities (and I don’t pretend to understand this), we didn’t terminate early and could be removed from the program and wouldn’t have to pay the initial $600 bill or the $200 of interest. Apparently all we have to do is to send them a copy of our lease stating that our landlord, not us, pays the Utilities -and also 2 copies of our cable bills confirming that we do in fact live at this address.
As for whether or not her credit rating could be revived was not addressed. Now initially it seemed like a good way out, but upon further consideration I’m not sure that this is the route we should take. I feel like they have been so sleazy and dishonest that I cannot trust them or their latest ploy. I have the feeling that it would be better to argue are case on the basis that we NEVER entered into the contract with them to begin with, rather than putting our faith in them to actually remove us from the program and terminate the remaining charges. I feel like its just another way to swindle us into doing something that they can later use against us.
So my plan is to contact our Utilities company in the morning to see what other people (and I know that there are others) have done in this situation. I also thought I should contact the Fraud Squad at the Police Dept and the Better Bureau Business. A friend told me that she had luck at her local Member of Provincial Parliament’s office, and that they actually took care of it for her.
Obviously it was a mistake signing the original document, but again, it was actually 100% a con. Beyond that, we made it quite clear that we had no agreement. It’s crazy that we only now here of this, over a year since the original phone call in which we confirmed that there was no contract, and apparently 6 months after the alleged “early termination”, from a collections agency! If anyone has any suggestions, please help. We can’t afford to pay these ridiculous charges, and even less so to have our credit ratings ruined.
Alex
Dec 6 2008
So I talked with Jasper again last night… After getting nowhere with legal aid, our utilities company, etc etc… We had decided to go ahead and send Universal Power our new lease (stating we are no longer paying utilities), and proof of address (bills addressed to both me and my girlfriend at this address). Apparently it’s all taken care of. He said that we should be receiving a letter in the mail shortly confirming that our account was closed, that we didn’t owe them the termination fee or the subsequent interest charges and that the collections agency would be called off.
I guess now we have to see what we can do about reviving our credit rating now that the charges have been dropped entirely. We wanted to post this here in the hope that our experience either warns others about this scam, or suggests an escape route for those in situations similar to our own!
Anna
Feb 10 2009
Alex, that same company came to my door in Kingston as well. The story is a little different, though. This is how aggressive these companies get.
Two young men came to my door. As I have some training in marketing double speak and NLP type of language, I recognized their tactics immediately. I was angry because such tactics can very much confuse an elderly person and my 94 year old mother in law lives here as well.
While these young men are talking and asking to see a copy of my utility bill, they edged their way into my home. They are standing in the front hall. I had asked them to back out the door and they stood and kept talking.
I asked several times, finally saying if they did not leave I would call the police. They continued talking, asking me why I would do that in a loud manner. They were getting agitated. I raised MY voice and stood my ground and ordered them out of my home.
I then did phone the police. I cannot tell you how intimidating this was. I had been a victim of crime in the past and it was all I could do not to get very upset that these men were not leaving upon my first, second and fifth requests to leave.
The police did come and they did take my report seriously, as the language that was used was threatening towards me. “If you don’t sign this, someone will be by later to FORCE you to pay x amount.”
I was more angry that they would use this sort of language than anything, thinking of how intimidating it was to me and how it may be even more so to someone home alone or who is not able to stand up to them. I was told both were fired…by the company…I’m not so sure.
I signed nothing but, in order to not sign, I really had to get very assertive with them. I can see how people are lied to, intimidated and outright scammed into signing for these “services” The language they use and their manner is nothing short of an intimidating con game. These practices are a threat to consumers.
I wish I had taped the conversation and had been able to sue that company. If the police took what they had done seriously enough to file the complaint, then it’s time this is stopped. They knew I was intimidated and getting afraid and it was ONLY the threat of the police arriving that got them to leave finally, but only after I had made them know in no uncertain terms that I meant business about calling them.
What kind of company sends someone to your door who edges into your home and won’t leave unless you literally raise your voice and yell at them that the police are coming? This is disgraceful!!