Telecom troubles
March 26 2009 by Ellen Roseman
Two years ago when launching this blog, I was singing the Bell Blues. The song goes on, but now it’s Telecom Troubles.
Lousy customer service is common among telecom providers. People are fed up with long waiting times on the phone and persistent billing errors that can’t seem to be resolved.
When a billing dispute lingers, telecom firms are quick to call in outside bill collectors, threatening to besmirch customers’ credit records.
There’s now a federal agency that handles complaints, but its powers are limited. Just check this confusing chart and tell me how easy it is to decipher. When you use words like “forborne” you’re not speaking the language of the consumer.
So, keep sending me those telecom complaints, since I can usually get them resolved quickly. Companies set up terrible systems to deal with ordinary customers, but they sure know how to get things done when the media are looking over their shoulders.
As for Bell, I’m still hearing frequent tales of woe. I wanted to ask Kevin Crull, president of residential services, about his progress. But alas, he’s not available for an interview, despite several recent requests.
Guess it’s hard to turn around a giant ship when the captains keep changing.
GM
Mar 26 2009
I’d love to find a way to keep down phone expenses. So when I saw that Vonage Canada, which fields calls via computer, was offering a twenty buck prix fixe for basic local service, I went online and filled out the application form.
I spoke to no human. Little did I know that I was signing away my life, well anyway my money.
Online, I was informed that there was no charge for the first month of service.
Few days later, I got a call from a “THIRD PARTY” - he asked me the same questions as the online form had asked according to “FCC” regulations.
Say, I said, aren’t we in Canada? isn’t the CRTC the governing body? No reply.
I guess he was calling from the US. Vonage Canada is just a figleaf for US owners.
I had asked for the USB containing software. Price $29.95, after tax $39.95.
Once it was delivered, I went over the instructions, having to get out a magnifying glass so I could read the invisible ink that said the software didn’t work with my Mac OS X.
Vonage advertised the software without any conditions, without saying Mac users wouldn’t be able to use it.
The American “Third Party” did not advise me about any limitations on Vonage service.
Suddenly I realized. How naive I was. Vonage isn’t interested in consumers. It just wants to take my money and run.
It’s difficult to get through to Vonage — I guess they don’t have many employees in Canada. When I did, I asked that my order be cancelled. I was told I would have to pay a cancellation fee and pay for return of the unusable USB.
Vonage had already debited the USB on my Visa card, $39.95
I then received computer-generated information that the cost of cancelling Vonage was $56.49.
Although I had been informed that Vonage would be in contact with my present phone company so the number could be transferred, this was never done. I was never linked up….never connected.
Visa ate the first debit $39.53, but balked at blocking the $56.49.
The reason: they couldn’t get between Vonage and me. They are unable to block any debit — even if I cancel my Visa card!
I will be liable for LIFE for false charges made by VONAGE.
Bring on the rubber hoses. Vonage must be owned by AIG.
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Hi, Ellen. Just to inform you that GM has been contacted and her concerns have been looked after. Here is my contact info for any further assistance.
Thank you for bringing this matter to my attention.
Sincerely,
Riza Rahmdel
Executive Response Team
VONAGE|301-2660 Matheson Blvd E | Mississauga, ON | L4W 5M2
e: riza.rahmdel@vonage.com
w: http://www.vonage.ca
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From GM: Ellen, many thanks, Riza called me and everything will be refunded including the postal charge…
JS
Mar 26 2009
I am having tremendous problems with Rogers that I am getting nowhere with.
I have high speed internet at home that for the past 6 weeks has been unbearably slow most (but not all) of the time.
In the past 60 days, I have called Rogers no less than 20 times. Each time I get an apology. They ask me to reboot the router (I do), the modem (I do), the computer (I do). It then works well for an hour or two and then slows to an unbearable crawl.
Last week, they suggested I get a new Rogers modem/router (I did so immediately) and upgrade from a 1 meg connection to a 7 meg connection (to support 2 computers). I did, wondering why I would need so much bandwidth, but hey, why not? They only wanted an additional $10 per month … and oh yes, the new modem costs an additional $1.50 per month?!?!
Long story short, since upgrading and installing the new stuff, the internet is still as slow as ever most of the time. So I called Rogers back and was told to reboot everything … sure enough I was fast for the next hour.
So, I called again. This time, they walked me through some complex procedure and I was asked to email them the results of it … I did so within a couple of minutes.
At that point, they acknowledged the issue was on their side – saying they would fix it with 48 hours … to no avail. We are now heading in to the 80th hour and the internet is still crawling.
I am at my wit’s end.
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The tech guru was here yesterday. The cable outside my house was rotten, so he did a temporary fix and said he’ll be back in 60 days or do to put the cable underground.
Now the internet is flying around here … although the connection did drop me twice last night … let’s see what happens.
Now I have to get my wife on track. She is angry as she also does a fair bit of work at home and these problems have put her behind her schedule.
You know what would be a very nice gesture of Rogers? $100 off our bill would go a long way. Or perhaps a flower arrangement to my wife. Either of these would make her smile in a big way (seriously) … and you know what they say? “A happy wife is a happy life.”
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Hi folks, internet is brutal … about as bad as ever before. I am at a loss as to what to do …???
Please help.
TB
Mar 26 2009
Recently, we terminated our services with Bell and switched to a different phone service provider, Vonage.
After the termination of our service, Bell billed us $53.13 for Deactivation Charges. I would like to take a moment to explain the circumstances surrounding our decision for terminating our service with Bell.
We have been customers for many years, having carried the service from one address to another a few times. Over the years, we found that the long distance plans we signed up for slowly changed and additional charges were applied without prior notice.
Eventually, we began dealing with Vonage on a trial basis while remaining Bell customers. When we were moving from Burlington, ON to Thorold, ON in the summer of 2007, I called to cancel the service, as we had decided we were quite happy with Vonage.
In the process of that phone call, the Bell Representative promised me just shy of the world on a silver platter if we would remain customers.
We were offered a new long distance plan to cover North American long distance, a package to include cable television and internet service, long distance calling cards to allow my children, who are out of province in college, to call anywhere in North America as part of our long distance plan, etc. We were told there would be no installation charges for either the phone service or the cable and internet services.
I took the Bell Representative’s name and employee ID number and told him I would discuss it with my husband and then call back. After discussing the offer with my husband, he had some more questions.
When my husband called back to talk to the same person, he was told there was no one by that name at Bell and his employee ID number was of no help either. The Bell Representative my husband spoke to answered some of his questions and the rates on the cable and internet were substantially higher than I had been promised.
We decided we would keep the phone service at our new address, but decided NOT to have the cable and internet installed. We would stay with our current provider for those services.
We moved at the beginning of August. When I received my first Bell bill dated Aug. 10, 2007, I had been billed for an Installation Charge of $50 on the phone and an Installation charge of $50 for ExpressVu, which was never installed because we had decided before the move not to order it.
In addition, the phone charges were higher than what I had been quoted. When I called, a Bell Representative said she would have the 2 installation charges credited back, but the phone charges were misquoted and there was nothing she could do about lowering them. She did, however, credit my account for one month’s service for the inconvenience.
Starting the following month, September 2007, we began getting billed for Sympatico High Speed Internet and a Modem Lease. Throughout the months from September 2007 to January 2008, we continued to be billed for Internet service which we never subscribed to.
On several occasions, I called Bell about these charges. Each time I spoke to a new Customer Service Representative, we would go through a long process of me explaining that we never had the service installed. They would check their records to see that we were listed as Sympatico customers but had no internet usage logged.
Eventually, in February of 2008, Bell acknowledged that we never subscribed to Sympatico and most of the overbilled charges were credited back to us. I chose not to pursue the few remaining dollars that had not been corrected.
In March of 2008, we were billed a $100 Early Termination Charge for Internet Services, which, as I already stated, we had NEVER SUBSCRIBED TO.
Once again, I had to call and speak to a Customer Service Representative, go through the whole story again, spending precious time on hold while they looked through records. Eventually, they confirmed that we had never actually subscribed to the service and credited back the $100.
While all this was going on for several months, and for months later, we continued to wait for calling cards for my children who attend school out of town. I confirmed on several occasions that the cards had been ordered, and then reordered, and that these cards would allow them the same long distance privileges we had at home.
In September, when the phone bill arrived, I noticed an increase to our monthly fees. When I called to ask why the prices had increased without notice, they said we should have been notified in our June or July billing. I have all previous bills and show no record of a notice of increase.
I inquired about the calling cards again, which never did arrive, but was told at this time that the cards would only allow them to call home as part of the long distance package. It did not include any calls they initiated to anyone else. That was not what I had been told, on several occasions, by other reps.
By this time, I had had enough. I felt we had been misled on several occasions, overcharged numerous times, had to spend a ridiculous amount of time on the phone to have the overbillings reversed, and all the promises that had originally convinced me stay with Bell had been lies.
There was no logical reason to stay with Bell any longer. We were paying more than other providers were offering and certainly not getting the customer service to warrant it.
We contacted Vonage to activate service with them. They sent notice to Bell requesting a transfer of the phone number and asked to be notified of a date that the service could be transferred.
Without responding to Vonage regarding their request, and without any notice to us, Bell immediately disconnected our phone service on Oct. 15, 2008. All of a sudden, people calling my home were getting a message that the line was no longer in service.
Bell made no attempt to contact me to confirm whether or not we wanted the service cancelled nor did they contact Vonage to respond to their request. Vonage made contact with them, and several days later, Bell reconnected the line long enough to transfer the number to Vonage.
On my November billing, I was billed $53.13 for deactivation charges, part of which was listed as LD Network 30 Day Deactivation Charges. We were at no time informed that 30 days notice was required to deactivate any service. And if that is the case, Bell had ample opportunity to explain that to us when Vonage requested a date for transfer. Bell could simply have scheduled that date for 30 days forward.
After all the hassles of being overcharged and the countless hours of being on the telephone to have mistakes corrected, not to mention the empty promises and lack of customer service, I hardly think that charging us money to deactivate any service is appropriate.
In principle, we are refusing to pay this deactivation charge. However, it now appears that Bell has decided to send this to collections. A customer should be allowed to cancel any vendors’ services that they no longer require without any penalty, especially if there is no contract involved (which is the case here).
This invalid charge, and any interest that may have occurred from it need to be removed from our account, and our account closed out at $0. Also, we need the collection agency involved to be notified.
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We received a call today from a representative of the Bell Executive Offices informing us that our email had been brought to her attention.
She has waived the outstanding balance on our account and apologized on behalf of Bell for the events that transpired over the last year and a half.
Thank you to all involved.
LA
Mar 26 2009
I think it is time to ask a question about Telus. Are their ‘verbal contracts’ legal?
Here’s a brief story. Last year in July, I signed up for the promotional rate of high speed internet. I called through Customer Service and got the rate over the telephone.
When I tried to cancel today as I am moving, they said that I would be charged $120 cancellation fee whether I had one day or one year left on the contract.
I have 4 months. so if I was charged the usual 1 or 2 month cancellation fee that would be $20-$40.
When I said that I don’t remember the contract, ‘MARY’ (who refused to give me her last name… why?) stated that I never got a written contract, only a verbal agreement over the phone.
MARY insisted that we have a binding ‘legal’ agreement but a verbal agreement is worth the paper it is written on. I have 2 graduate degrees and a good memory. I don’t remember receiving the info about $120 cancellation fee and where is it written that I agreed to those conditions?
MARY then gave me the following options:
- transfer the connection to someone else FOR A FEE
- cut off my line now and still charge me the remaining 4 months… i.e. Telus gets full payment and more bandwidth while I get nothing.
- charge me the $120 which I never agreed to and they don’t have in writing that I did.
In addition to insulting the intelligence of their clients with these cancellation terms, my question is whether or not these excessive, usurious ‘verbal’ agreements are legal? Where is the proof that I was properly informed and formally agreed?
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Hi Ellen, it was kind of you to send my email, but talking to TELUS was a complete waste of time.
Ignorantly and unsurprisingly, they stood behind the untenable position that a conversation held one year ago, to which one-sided notes were taken by an operator, constitutes a legal agreement.
I insist that it does not! and could you check this with a consumer legal authority?
They waffled between whether an ‘existing’ agreement (therefore existing conditions…) was applied to a ‘new agreement’ out of the kindness of Telus’ heart, which constitutes a ‘new’ contract. If a new contract, why did I not get the terms and conditions in writing?
Why is it that Telus can inundate our email boxes with notices to look at our monthly accounts, inundate our email boxes with their promos, but cannot send out via email or snail-mail ONE agreement… that is the issue.
And then expect ME to remember the exact terms and conditions, including cancellation?
I asked the person I spoke to what were the terms of her insurance agreements? pension plans? RRSPs… does she remember these or would she have to consult the CONTRACT?
Yet, Telus expects their clients to remember the exact terms… somehow Telus is normal while their clients are expected to have super-human memories.
I return again to the issue - does a VERBAL agreement with NO follow-up documentation (which Telus confirms) constitute a legal binding agreement?
Is this another example of Might makes Right?
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A.J. Gratton, Telus spokeswoman:
As you can imagine, we value all our customers. We offered Mrs. A quite a deal last year to keep her as a TELUS client. We said she could have the same service half price if she agreed to stay with us for a full year.
I can assure you that we are confident that she was fully aware of the one-year term commitment that she made to TELUS when she renewed her Internet service.
Our records confirm that the term commitment was part of the reason she was able to obtain the deeply discounted contract pricing and that she was informed of the early termination charge that would apply if she terminated her services before the end of her term commitment.
In the interest of good customer care, we presented a number of options to Ms. A:
· Continue to pay her monthly bill until her account expires in July - cost $80
· Pay the early termination charge - cost $120
· Cancel the contract and charge her the non-contracted price for the first 9 months - cost $189
In our last conversation with Ms. A on March 24, 2009, she advised that she would prefer the first option and see her term through to July.
Ellen, it is clear to us that Ms. A fully understands that she made a 12-month commitment to TELUS to use the service when she renewed her Internet service in July of 2008 in exchange, in part, for the deeply discounted pricing which she has enjoyed for the past nine months.
It is also apparent to us that she may be attempting to leverage the risk of negative media attention through your newspaper to pressure us into relieving her of her commitment.
We have taken great care and attention in reviewing Ms. A’s situation. She has enjoyed the benefit of our service and we have offered her three reasonable ways to bring her commitment to TELUS to an end.
It is our understanding that she is moving abroad and so it would be more convenient if she could be relieved of this term commitment –but there are no grounds for this. She is simply looking for something that isn’t fair or reasonable, since she enjoyed her discount on the basis of a term commitment.
To give her a discount and not hold her to a term commitment would undervalue the service that we provide and would not be fair to our other customers.
I trust that this further background will enable you to have a better understanding of this matter.
CT
Mar 26 2009
I am writing to you today to see if you can be of any help with my ongoing battle to get Bell to stop billing me for a service that is supposed to be free.
On Friday, Feb. 20, 2009, Twitter announced that two-way SMS had been restored to Bell Mobility customers, stating that “There are no limits and no added fees (beyond your normal texting plan)
http://blog.twitter.com/2009/02/for-whom-bell-texts.html.
This was followed by numerous articles and blog entries online saying that Bell was going to charge 15 cents per message from Twitter.
There was then a reversal by Bell, and Twitter assured users that Bell was 100% online with the agreement:
Twitter:
http://blog.twitter.com/2009/02/bell-mobility-and-twitterno-extra-fees.html
Bell:
http://www.bell.ca/shopping/en_CA_ON.info/VasWlsTwittertab.details
However, Bell still continues to charge me for messages from Twitter, and the charges are listed on my bill as “TXT MSG - Short Code Programs.”
There are no other details. I asked for a detailed
accounting of each one of these charges, but Bell representatives at the call centre insist that these are not Twitter charges, but charges for other “premium” text services. The problem is, I don’t send or receive text via any “Short Code” other than Twitter’s Canadian Short
Code 21212.
One Bell rep even told me that Bell doesn’t keep a record of the details of every text message! That comes as news to me, as the pages of all the papers are going on and on about the transcripts of text messages sent and received by DB and MT in the Stefanie Rengel murder trial.
Attempts to speak with a manager are met only with promises that one will call me back within 24 to 48 “working hours.” So, some time in the next 6 days I can expect a call?
As a Bell Canada customer, I am far from feeling
“[d]elight!”
http://www.bell.ca/support/PrsCSrvGnl_CustomerClarity_Landing.page
And I know that I am not the only customer of Bell that is having this problem.
The hashtag #belltwit, http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23belltwit, is still stacking messages about people’s issues with this problem.
Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide with this matter.
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Ms Roseman,
Thanks for your help! Hopefully this will now be cleared up with everyone else as well. I’ll check in with some of my fellow Canadian Twitter users.
Lior
Mar 27 2009
Linda:
It’s not uncommon for companies to charge an early cancellation fee for promotional offers. As a note for future dealings, if you are signing for a promotion with a company that gives you a discounted rate on a product for a certain period of time, ask about any early cancellation fees. They don’t have to send you a written contract to sign, but they should send you the terms of service and also perhaps a summary of the promotional plan you signed up for, which includes all the fees and whatnot.
As for Telus, they have a solid reputation for brutal customer service (search online), and with them outsourcing more of their inbound staff to the Far East, expect the problem to get worse. CBC even did a segment about Telus’ poor customer service a few years ago. I doubt much has changed given the constant complaints you read online. As with other big corporations, Telus always blames the media and those “few” who complain for tarnishing their corporate image. LOLZ!
Kevin
Mar 27 2009
Before the days of competition, Bell Canada and Rogers Cable were the two main choices for telephone and television, respectively. The retail market was young and Bell and Rogers were faring well with their consumer base of subscribers. At that time, the industry was dominated by huge, vertically integrated firms.
By the mid to late 1980’s, competition began to emerge. Sprint Canada offered flat-rate plans on long-distance. Primus Canada offered competitive cost structure on long-distance against Bell Canada. Yak Communications offered cost-effective contract-free telecommunications services.
In July 2005, Rogers introduced its local cable (VoIP service), dubbed Rogers Home Phone service in the Greater Toronto Area.
Partly because of the new competition and partly because of changes in technology, such as the advent of the Internet in 1995, the underlying structure of the market began to change as well. The notion that the market would always be dominated by huge, consolidated monopolies began to unravel.
Founded in 1998, TekSavvy Solutions Inc. - based in Chatham, Ont., started life as an Internet development firm. Its principal service is Internet access, which it provides to both residential and business customers located in Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and British Columbia.
TekSavvy is a strong leader in supporting Net Neutrality and does not engage in any form of traffic shaping or throttling of end-user traffic, unlike rivals Bell, Rogers and Primus Canada, which adhere to such practices.
TekSavvy believes that consumers have a right to privacy and telecommunication service providers have an obligation to uphold the law protecting the privacy of all Canadian consumers.
In early 2008, TekSavvy launched home phone service (reseller of Bell Canada’s services) in Ontario and Quebec. With no contracts, no system access fees, cost-effective calling features and more than competitive long-distance rates, TekSavvy consumer’s base is growing by leaps and bounds, giving rivals Bell and Rogers a run for their money.
TekSavvy is all about you, the consumer. It’s a family owned business that stands on the principles of ethics. What separates it from corporations like Bell and Rogers is that workers are eager to go above and beyond what is expected of them on the job.
Every day, TekSavvy interacts directly via voice or text with scores of customers — listening attentively to their wants and needs and concerns, and doing all they can to establish trust, confidence and rapport, while standing firm in their pursuit for Net Neutrality. In a nutshell, they truly care about customers and about the organization.
To sum, I’m glad to be part of the TekSavvy family and to have made a grave for Bell and Rogers.
I’m only a satisfied customer. The opinions expressed are mine and not that of TekSavvy or its related employees.
AB
Mar 27 2009
Recently LG Electronics Canada recalled their LG150 cellphones because they did not meet Industry Canada’s Standards.
As a replacement, LG offered a model LG160 cellphone which I accepted in good faith.
While the new phone was a reasonable replacement, it lacked voice phone commands, which I had become used to on my original 150. As an 82 year old with large clumsy fingers, I found this feature indispensable.
I told both Virgin and LG that I would not accept the LG160 because it lacked voice commands and offered fewer facilities than my original cellphone.
At one point, I suggested the Samsung 610 cellphone would make a suitable replacement (at about the same retail value) and this was accepted.
After nearly one month, there has been no further progress despite repeated inquiries.
I now have 2 cellphones, an LG150 that is no longer usable and an LG160 that does not have the facility to Voice Phone and is therefore of no use.
Can you take up the cudgels on my behalf and persuade the LG people to provide me with a cell phone that has voice commands so that I may return the 2 cellphones I have?
I would be most grateful if you could do this for me, my cellphone is pretty much my life line.
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Dear Ms. Roseman, I am pleased to tell you that the complaint about my Cell phone with LG/Virgin Mobile has been settled to my complete satisfaction.
Many thanks for your assistance in this matter.
AP
Mar 27 2009
We have been at the mercy of Rogers ever since we became customers 8 months ago. We get quoted one thing and when the bill comes it’s always $30 to $70 higher than the quote.
When I call, I always get treated as if they are doing me a favour when they take the overbilling off. It’s getting so I dread the when the bill comes, beause I know I will be on the phone for an hour trying to straighten out the mess once again.
Is there not an ombudsman that we can appeal to?
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Thank you for contacting Rogers after my email. A Rogers representative called this morning and went over the billing with me.
We did come to a good conclusion and I received a discount for several months for the problems I’ve encountered in the past.
Hopefully things have been straightened out, and I do feel it was because of you that they were willing to have a representative speak to me.
So thanks once again from a grateful consumer.
chronoss
Mar 29 2009
Just use Teksavvy. Of them all, they are the best guys.
All the blah blah in the world don’t help ya. Bell’s BS almost cost me my life and I proved they owe me 250$ and my own dad 209$. Every government agency knows and has done nothing.
THEY (GOVT) are useless.
PA
Mar 30 2009
Last Nov. 30, my Fido phone was stolen while I was in Mexico. I could not find a way to contact Fido from Mexico and had to ask my friend to do so. The company was not notified until Dec. 1.
I searched the computer for how to reach Fido by phone or internet. You need a password for the internet, but as I’d had my Fido account for years and had never used a password if I ever had one, I couldn’t use the internet.
I had no phone, so calling was difficult and I had already used a busines office’s phone for over an hour calling Visa. I tried a few friends and family but couldn’t reach anyone. When I got to the hotel that evening, I finally called my boyfriend, who called Fido in the morning.
VISA agree with me that calls made on my stolen phone were fraudulent and I should not have to pay for them.
The total of the fraudulent calls is, by my calculation, $851.90.
I spoke to many Fido agents to try and resolve this matter upon my return and once I received the bill. I finally spoke to an individual who offered me a credit of $404, which I did not consider to be fair.
I asked to speak to a supervisor and he told me that if I spoke to a supervisor the offer might be rescinded. As he put it: “This is an offer between you and me.”
I told him to give me a credit, but I said that I did not in any way accept that this was a full credit, nor did I accept his approach. I hung up as I was afraid I would have no credit at all, which was reasonable given the extraordinarily difficult conversations I’d had with people in the Fido call centres.
The behaviour of this call centre rep was virtually blackmail and probably illegal, in my view.
This episode led me to wonder if this is Rogers’ policy to entrap people who have been wrongly billed into accepting a partial credit, then threatening to take it away if the matter is pursued.
The person I spoke to today implied that in accepting the credit I would have been forgoing any further consideration. If so, it would confirm that this is your modus operandi. I will contact the CRTC about this.
I am paying what I consider to be correct, that is, my Fido charges and any phone calls charged prior to the theft.
I feel that Fido has been really terrible through this whole affair. Despite years of being a customer and paying my bills like clockwork, I have been treated very badly.
I would never do business with Fido again, nor recommend to any colleague that they do so.
P.S. On a further point, it was totally) impossible to cancel my Fido phone from a foreign country. This is absurd and not in Rogers’ or the customer’s interest.
Losing a credit card is nothing compared to this.
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Liz Hamilton, Rogers spokeswoman:
With respect to the customer’s concern, we have investigated the issue and responded to her directly. She was not well served initially by us and we have apologized for the poor level of customer service she received. I believe her account has now been settled to her satisfaction.
When you are roaming, Fido sends an sms to customers with a customer service number to call directly. However, since her phone was stolen, she likely wouldn’t have written the number down. The number is available on our internet site (see link below) and there is no need for a password to access the Internet:
http://fido.ca/web/page/portal/Fido/CoverageSupport?forwardTo=linkToInternational
Bylo
Mar 30 2009
> Lousy customer service is common among telecom providers.
It may be common but it’s not universal. Like Kevin, above, I’m a satisfied customer of TekSavvy. The people there really care, they have the will, tools and experience to provide superb service. If only Bell and Rogers were 10% as good.
IC
Mar 30 2009
My wife bought a phone for Xmas for my 12 year old son. As the Fido lady explained all of the packages to her, my wife kept saying “no Internet, no Internet, I don’t want my son using the Internet on his phone because we don’t want to pay for Internet”.
No means no, right?
So my wife bought a monthly package that included phone minutes and text messaging, and the ability to use the Internet for free when he was piggy-backing on wi-fi.
Four days after he got the phone, his service was suspended because he had racked up $1,600 in fees. Four days!
Fido explained to us that he didn’t have an Internet package, so every time he used the Internet and wasn’t on wi-fi, he was being charged. We told the customer service person the “no Internet, no Internet” story, but it fell on deaf ears.
We demanded to speak to a supervisor, who said he could reduce the bill from $1,600 to $25, but no more.
He explained to us that while we said we didn’t want Internet because we didn’t want to pay the fees, we didn’t request to “deregister” internet.
In other words, expressing what we wanted in a clear and unambiguous way was not enough. We also had to know Fido’s secret, arcane code for expressing what we wanted or our request would be ignored.
We told this story to many other people, one of whom said she had the same experience. Except the secret code word she was given was “disconnect”.
So we should be grateful because the bill was reduced from $1,600 to $25, right? Except we aren’t.
And, as you can imagine, at $25 it isn’t the money. It is about us still having to pay for Rogers’ – oops! – Fido’s mistake and, if you can reduce the bill from $1,600 to $25, why can’t you just go $25 more to make a new, potential long-term customer happy.
Except that we are no longer a potential long-term customer. We are a guaranteed short-term customer. The cost to Fido is that we will NEVER forget this experience. As soon as the term of this package expires, we are switching carriers.
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Elizabeth Hamilton, Rogers spokeswoman:
We’ve apologized to the customer for the inconvenience this caused and assured him that a coaching opportunity will follow with the customer representative, who should have respected his wishes at the time of activation to implement a complete data restriction.
We have also resolved the charges and put an appropriate plan on the customer’s account after discussions with him directly.
Thank you for the opportunity to resolve, Liz
my thoughts
Mar 31 2009
I suppose George (Cope) was impressed with Kevin’s “showmanship” to keep him around a bit longer. With his corner office and bonus already in the bag, I think Kevin’s priority of his imaginary “metric proven customer service” has shifted to deciding what shade of lipstick looks best on George’s ass.
Lior
Mar 31 2009
My thoughts: are you talking about the Bell exec team? Well, truth is, every time I contacted Crull’s office things do get resolved and quickly.
It’s just a shame that I’ve had to reach his office numerous times already to get things done. Most of my complaints should have been resolved at the call centre level.
However, when you outsource your call centre to a slum where the employees can barely utter a word in English and just don’t have any pride in their work, except to meet volume targets for a fraction of the price it would cost here, that’s when things tend to go bad.
my thoughts
Apr 1 2009
Lior,
I’m talking about Kevin and his promise to improve services dramatically. It was in 2006 or 2007 that customer furor peaked and he declared himself with rolled up sleeves the “go to guy”.
Now it’s April 2009 and Bell is just as bad, maybe worse than it’s ever been.
From the sounds of your troubles to the exec “team”, customer service seems even more bumbling and maybe highlights Kevin’s lack of control and/or management inexperience to tackle those issues. Rick Wagoner school of management, I wonder?
In my world, those who don’t show any results in the first 60 days get tossed out. Kevin’s on an extended super honeymoon and we’re taking notice.
As for your luck with the exec team, it’s just that, dumb luck. Customer feedback of their service and billing reconciliation from other sites and this one is nothing stellar. It ranges from satisfactory to plain Mumbai awful.
Maybe George will seek a government bailout and take out an axe for all the rot that’s in his group. Lots of workers with parasitic tendencies who have overly developed bright kissers are still there.
For starters some of them are easy to spot - they’re the one’s with pictures of themselves and their managers in the cubicle.
It’s incredible that given this economic climate that group presidents and their underlings can be still so ineffective, careless and inept in improving customer service. My two cents.
Tim
Apr 1 2009
I have been a customer of Bell Mobility since the early ’90s, when practically ALL calls were at 50 cents a minute!
And since that time, I have been a loyal and faithful customer, getting the odd new plan, and receiving “rewards” of a new free phone over the years.
My newest plan had me paying almost $110 per month (inclusive with all rates/features and taxes/fees). This after talking to someone at Bell about my best needs, considering my usage, etc.
They also offered me a new phone last January 2008, which I accepted, and understood that I was getting it as a reward for being a long time customer.
On Jan. 9, 2009, I went to Virgin Mobile at the Telephone Booth in the Pickering Town Centre, and was able to get a plan that had everything I needed/wanted for $55 a month (inclusive with all rates/features and taxes/fees), HALF what Bell was charging me. I signed up then and there with Virgin, keeping my cell number.
The next day, I called Bell Mobility to confirm that my account was to be closed. I asked EXACTLY how much I owed them at that point to do so.
The fellow went through the process of calculating a pro-rated amount, considering it was in mid term of the billing cycle, and gave me the final figure of $76.18, which I paid Jan. 13.
I asked the fellow AT THAT TIME if there were any other charges or fees I had to pay and he CONFIRMED that the pro-rated $76.18 was all that was owed.
On Jan. 27, I received what I thought was my final bill from Bell to confirm these details. I was surprised to see an additional amount of $400 plus $54 in taxes was now due. I called Bell and was told it was a cancellation fee for cancelling my “contract” early.
I explained my previous conversation with the Bell rep, but was told that the fellow on Jan. 13th had mis-spoke and that I indeed owed the $452. (I have since just received another bill for the same $452 amount.)
I replied that I was very clear in the earlier conversation and asked specifically if I owed anything more and was told emphatically “NO”. So in my estimation, Bell should take responsibility for their own employee’s statements and leave it at that, releasing me from the $452. Otherwise, it seems as if they can just say whatever they want, then change their minds later if it suits them to do so.
On the Jan. 27th call, the rep claimed I had “signed” up for a three year contract when I received my new phone in January 2008. I only remember that I was told I was entitled to a new phone as a reward for being a long time customer and signed a receipt for accepting the new phone at the store.
This, it turns out, was in fact a new contract. This WAS NOT explained to me as such at the time I picked up/signed for the new phone at the Bell Mobility store.
The Bell rep offered to drop the $452 to only $306, which would represent the cost of just the phone itself, waiving the cancellation fee.
I offered to return the phone, as I now had a new one from Virgin anyway, but was told that I could not. I told them to forget it and not to contact me again (I had already had a call about why did I leave).
Ellen, is there anything you can do here? This is the very reason I left Bell after so long in the first place and confirms my worst fear that they are a big, bloated unresponsive company, and are scaring away customers with such outrageous fees and obscure calling plans that charge an arm and a leg.
I only went to Virgin after trying twice over a couple of months last summer to find a plan for my needs and was assured that only by paying $110 a month was I able to get the “best” deal from Bell.
Obviously, Bell can do better as Virgin uses their system, but Virgin can offer me more features at half the price. So I was a sucker to Bell all along. This is also why I don’t have a Bell land line and use Vonage, better features and cheaper cost, with NO hassles!
Please help if you can…
————————————————————
Hi Ellen…
Thank you…Thank you…Thank you!!
I just got off the phone with Bell Mobility and they are waiving the cancellation fee.
At first they offered to just reduce the fee by 50%. I rejected this offer.
I argued they couldn’t say one thing one day and another thing the next, that they had to accept responsibility for what their employees say, especially when they have or should have all the facts. (After all, I had just cancelled my service, so wouldn’t it show that I was under a “contract” that had time left on it?)
After reviewing the “tape” or “transcript”, Bell conceded that I was led to believe there would be no other charges coming and waived the entire fee.
It took some doing, but I stuck to the truth and maintained that anything else was unacceptable and that I would continue to fight this if they chose to pursue a cancellation fee. I would take my chances against their changing story and/or misrepresentations with anyone who would listen.
Thanks so much for your help, Ellen. You deserve a pair of golden scissors for cutting through all the red tape! Keep up the great work for “the little guy”.
Yours truly, another happy consumer…
JDT
Apr 7 2009
I had an experience with Rogers Communications that the public should be made aware of. I am looking forward to seeing it in print as a warning to others.
If you are considering switching to Rogers from your present phone provider, Bell or whoever, take heed and think twice.
I didn’t have a problem with Bell, but switched because I had internet, wireless and cable with Rogers and I wanted one bill. In other words, I fell for their bundle con.
When the arrangements were finalized to switch over, oh how co-operative Rogers was. Within a couple of days, a technician arrived and made the necessary connections and left. It appeared the system was operating as it was when Bell had the contract. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Shortly after the hookup, I began receiving constant calls on my main line which I thought was telemarketing. It turned out to be my fax, which was ringing on the main line. The fax machine did not produce a fax sheet, just constant ringing.
I was not aware of the malfunction until I began receiving calls asking what was wrong with my fax. Now the fun began.
Phone calls to Rogers were a nightmare: alibis, excuses, justifications and finger pointing from five different representatives as to why they could not do a correction.
They could not have a technician available for four to five days and booked me for a Sunday, then made it appear they were doing me a big favour. In the meantime, I had no business fax operating.
Fed up with their justifications, I made a trip to Rogers office in Richmond Hill. Once again justifications, but no reasonable time frame for a correction.
I was told it takes time for me to be placed back into the system, like this was my fault. They would call me when a technician would be available. Finally I got a senior technician, Rudy, who corrected the system.
After eight days, I was back on line. Now the E mails start, you cannot believe the documentation, paperwork confirmations and double talk contradicting each other, 10 plus pages of it, each representative overriding the other.
It’s as if the left hand does not know what right hand is doing. Everyone was sympathetic but that and $2.50 may get you on the subway.
I am still uncertain what my final invoices will be and I guess I will just have to wait it out.
The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know, take it from me.
Rogers promised to take care of cancelling our Bell contract, which turned out to be another worthless promise. I recently received a statement from Bell charging me for penalty and cancellation fee. This must be done 30 days prior to the move, which I was never aware of.
Both Rogers and Bell are guilty, as Bell neglected to inform me of the penalties when told of my changeover. Rogers promised to take care of this, and of course, trying to locate that person at Rogers… forget it.
Be aware
Apr 11 2009
Readers who have recently activated or who have done a hardware upgrade with Bell Mobility should be aware that late payments WILL be reported to a credit bureau. For a long time this was threatened but never done, however, it is now being done.
Considering accuracy in billing is not one of Bell Mobility’s strong points, be very aware that if you spot an error on your BM invoice and call in to have an agent correct it, you’ll still need to pay the improper amount in full and get the credit on the following bill. If you pay short and remit the difference, it will be considered a late payment and your credit will be affected. If the credit owed to you is large and you do want to simply pay the difference, make sure to advise the CSR you’re dealing with that you want to ensure that no late payment will be reported to a credit bureau as a result of paying less than the total amount owing on your bill.
Cynthia
Apr 14 2009
Hi Ellen:
I just sent good old Kevin another email about Bell, this time about their telemarketing calls. They are coming 2-3x a day now. I mentioned in my email that we are on the DNCL, but because we are customers they can harass us. I also mentioned that I was unable to block this particular telemarketer’s # through my Bell Services: hmmmm. Just sent that email tonight, after the 3rd call today. I said I doubt that your telemarketing company is calling to reduce my bill, they wouldn’t be calling at all. I’ll see what kind of response I get from his office. If I get a call, I’m going to neogiate our phone bill down!
Cynthia
Apr 15 2009
Just a quick update before I head out the door this morning. Received a call from Bell’s Executive Office about my complaint email sent yesterday evening. They must be really on top of reading the emails. Might be running scared.
Don’t have time to call back today, so I will follow up tomorrow and see what they do for me! After all, this phone has been active for 44 years.
Cynthia
Apr 16 2009
Just got off the phone with someone at the Bell “executive offices”, who indicated that my numbers have been placed on the internal do not call list. That should work, if they update it more regularly than every 30 days.
Cynthia
Apr 17 2009
Apparently they do not update their internal call lists daily. “They,” Bell’s call centre, called today.
Amanda
Apr 21 2009
I received a cell phone bill from Telus for approx $140 today, for a plan that should have cost me $50/month, plus service fee of $6.95.
When I talked to a customer service representative back in January to express my problems about my Blackberry Pearl not working (and I phoned in almost every month with a new problem), they bargained with me and I received another phone (downgraded Blackberry for $50, because my 1 year warranty expired a week before my call, but i was in the store before that & the sales rep said there was no need to bring my phone in & the troubleshooting on the phone with a representative was all I needed).
After continuously arguing with customer service reps, I decided I should re-negotiate my cell phone bill as it’s typically $90/month in the past.
After re-negotiations, I received what I thought was a good deal of $50/month, but obviously there was miscommunication between myself & the representative.
Needless to say, I am really ticked off with Telus & the way they have handled the situation… every year I need to get a new phone because mine all of a sudden stop working (functions don’t work, software problems, etc.)
I haven’t dropped the phones, bought protectors for them and have taken good care of them. I’ve paid them lots of money, being a long term client for the past 5-6 years & when I threatened to cancel my contract in Jan all that I had to pay was $450, now they are telling me $600 + my current bill.
I think this is VERY unacceptable as a long term client who pays my bills on time (except for once). Now the phone I received in Jan is not functioning properly (and I had to pay $50 to downgrade from my Blackberry Pearl, which I believe I should have gotten a new Blackberry Pearl for no cost!).
Please Ellen is there anything you can do to help me? I believe Telus is a good company. I’ve been with them for a long time & it would be a shame to go somewhere else.
PM
Apr 23 2009
We in Canada have become accustomed to almost third world treatment by cell phone providers. But my recent dealings with Telus and their “agent”, Compu-Solve in Midland, Ont., has really set a new standard in customer maltreatment.
First, to be sure, Compu-Solve is an agent for Telus but when seeing the name Telus on their building, on their display cases and being presented with a Telus Mobility Invoice complete with the Telus logo, it seemed consistent for me to believe that I was dealing with Telus.
In the absence of any clarification, the distinction between Telus and the “agent” for Telus is ambiguous (deceptive) at best and their differing customer service approach without an explanation from the Telus agent is virtually invisible.
On April 17th, I purchased a new (Samsung Omnia) smart phone. On trying to set this phone up over the week-end and even calling Telus technical support today, there are several issues that make this phone less than I bargained for, unusable in certain basic functions and certainly less valuable than the $564.99 that I paid for it.
Even Telus’ technical department expressed disappointment in the phone’s operation and suggested other phones and models that might be more suitable.
Telus presumably has a 30-day grace period during which a phone can be returned and or exchanged; however, I learned this didn’t apply when a phone and Telus service was contracted through an agent. This phone was mine with no recourse once I walked out of the Compu-Solve store. Neither Telus (wouldn’t) nor Compu-Solve (couldn’t) was interested in exchanging this unit.
I’m not sure what satisfaction I will receive from Compu-Solve. Telus has confirmed that they cannot, will not become involved unless I signed a three year contract. Even then, I was expected to sell my current phone privately while presumably receiving a discount on another phone. The sum of $100 was mentioned.
If I have to accept a $564.99 loss, then so be it. However, I do hope that you will inform your readers of this somewhat curious relationship that Telus has with its agents and allow them the benefit of my experience.
Lior
Apr 23 2009
Be aware:
The fact that Bell Mobility reports to a credit bureau your payment habits is nothing new among wireless carriers. When I helped my father get his credit-report from Equifax, he was surprised to find a trade line from Rogers Wireless reporting how he pays his mobile.
So, yes, it is important to remind people out there who don’t pay their wireless accounts in full every month: your payment habits are reported to a credit bureau, and paying your bill consistently late will affect your credit score.
I think I was a little bit too grand when it comes to praising Fido. Ellen helped me sort out a big mess on my first wireless bill with them. If you are migrating with any carrier from pre-paid to post-paid, watch the fees!
When I went on the contract, I changed my phone number. Fido charged me an additional fee ($25) on top of the activation fee to change my number to a new one - twice! In addition, they charged me full price for the handset when in fact I suppose to pay only $50 for it because I went on a 2 year contract.
Of course, all of this was hidden by a salad of credits and charges on the bill. I mean, you literally have to be an accountant to go through all the numbers and try to understand how they arrived at them. I guess it’s no wonder because Fido, having been acquired by Rogers, is now using the same billing platform as Rogers.
Bottom line - watch your bill carefully.
And this is also another helpful note for Fido subscribers on a plan: they $2 charge for paper bills. If you are thinking of signing up with Fido and going on a contract, make sure you ask to be put on online billing right away to avoid extra charges.
Amanda
Apr 24 2009
Ellen, I would just like to say thank you for all of your help!!! I was contacted by a Telus executive & he helped me out a lot. Thanks again!!
Bell Mobility reporting payments to credit bureaus
May 2 2009
Does Bell Mobility report all accounts to the credit bureaus where payment is concerned, or just newly activated accounts and hardware upgrades?
For instance, for an old account with Bell Mobility (since 2001), if a phone number change is done now, will that account also be reported to credit bureaus with regards to payments?
TH
May 4 2009
Want to alert you to an issue with President’s Choice Mobile. I got my son a new cell phone and chose PC Mobile because of their $10/month unlimited texting.
Due to a system upgrade, they lost my $25 top up (and lots of other people’s) and never activated the texting option. All was fixed in the end, but I had to be persistent. And keep your receipt – you might need it!
I activated the phone on Saturday, May 2, around 12 pm. I received a $10 activation credit (expires June 2) and asked to have the unlimited texting added.
No problem – it will be added in the next 24 hours, check your balance and when it drops by $10, it’s active.
I then added a $25 card (expires in 60 days or July 2), since once the unlimited text activated, there would be no money left. And then we waited and waited, checking every hour until 11 pm – still $35 in account, no texting.
The next morning (Sunday), we check and can’t get anywhere –they are doing a system upgrade. We wait some more.
Now we can get in, but the balance is $10, expires June 2!!! Where did my $25 top up card go? I wait until 11:30 am when their call centre opens.
Wait on hold for 20 minutes, upgrade is still happening - can’t change/check anything - you’ll have to call back later.
Wait until Monday. Call in at 9:30 am, wait on hold for 30 minutes, talk to Maria and spend 15 minutes sorting it out.
Apparently, everyone is calling in because of issues like mine, which they freely admit were caused by the upgrade – I pity them - it’s going to be a long day for them.
Good thing I kept the top-up card receipt with the number as she wants it again. She also gave me $10 additional credit as compensation for the inconvenience – I’m delighted.
One issue remains – the expiry date is still June 2 when it should be July 2. We’ll take care of it, she says, have to have supervisor do it – give it 20 minutes.
Also, the unlimited text messaging is still not active – it will be, just wait up to 48 hours! OK, I hang up and wait, 2.5 hours later, still no text messaging and expiry is still June 2.
Call in again, “we are experiencing higher than normal call volumes” – no kidding, as I wait 30 minutes on hold.
In short order with Mike, all is sorted out, the Supervisor does the update while I wait (and I check on the phone to make sure it happens), the text messaging is fixed AND they credited me back the 30 cents for the 2 test messages I had sent when the plan wasn’t active.
My son can finally use his phone and I am impressed, yet disappointed, I had to do all this to get things done.
I received what I regard as very good customer service by the people of the PC Mobile call centre. They are polite, friendly, listen, speak excellent English, are very helpful and don’t try to rush you off the call before everything is fixed.
But unfortunately, losing a customer’s top-ups (money) and options due to a system upgrade and waiting for the customer to notice it and waste time calling in is not acceptable.
I just want any of your readers who made changes on Saturday/Sunday to their PC Mobile account and don’t closely monitor it to realize they may have been shortchanged like I was with their top-up disappearing, despite being successfully added.
Thanks to Ester, Maria and Mike at PC Mobile for sorting this mess out. You are very good, but I just wish I hadn’t had to call you.
AB
May 4 2009
Yesterday, when I turned on my TV in the morning, I was greeted by a message that my cable service was no longer authorized.
After speaking to Rogers, I discovered that someone had called to say they were moving into my home. Therefore, Rogers automatically acted to cancel my cable.
I have been in this home for 14 years and a Rogers customer for ten.
Being a past victim of identity fraud, I was quite alarmed and asked Rogers to conduct a fraud investigation. They refused saying it was simply human error, whereby a Rogers customer rep punched in my address rather than the correct address.
I asked how is it possible that a stranger can act to cut my cable service and I am not even contacted to confirm that I no longer want this service.
In my opinion, Rogers did not provide any reasonable answers to this dilemma. I am left wondering whether I should pursue this with the police or some other agency.
Nonetheless, it was quite disturbing to realize that a stranger can cut your service in your home and Rogers did not act to safeguard my interests as the homeowner.
Lior
May 6 2009
“Does Bell Mobility report all accounts to the credit bureaus where payment is concerned, or just newly activated accounts and hardware upgrades?”
They report virtually all wireless accounts that are active on their network. The logic is post-paid plans are like a revolving credit line - you pay after you use the service and in many cases there is no limit on how much you can use your handset.
That’s why when you go on a post-paid plan, all carriers will perform a credit check before opening an account for you. Even if you have a fixed amount of minutes with your plan, there is limit in place that will just cut off your service once you go over those minutes. The wireless carriers, in turn, have to trust that you’ll pay for whatever service you’ve used up.
As wireless is essentially a discretionary expense for most people (unless perhaps you run a business and absolutely require access to a mobile), wireless providers are taking a risk that a customer would pay back the charges.
Unlike utility bills or rent/mortgage, which are considered fixed expenses as a person needs to pay for shelter and can’t really live with no heat, water, or hydro, wireless is considered a luxury. It is not something that many people actually need, but rather want.
As such, you have to prove that you are trustworthy to repay the charges you incur when they become due. After all, when personal finances are tight, if a person for example has rent, hydro, and mobile bill due at the same time and they can’t afford to pay them all, under most logical circumstances, what items are they more likely to pay off first?
Lior
May 7 2009
In the above post, third paragraph, I meant to say there is NO limit in place on your usage. Ideally there should be one. Fido, for example, is kind of half way there by sending you a text message when you reached 75% of your allotted airtime. Note, however, that Fido states they’re under no obligation to ensure that you actually receive this text message and stay within your airtime. You’ll still be responsible for any extra charges you incur whether you receive this text message or not.
JM
Jan 31 2010
Lior: Koodo has something like that; my koodo bill goes as high as $200, and once it hits that it gets cut off. Unfortunately their call center has been closed all weekend despite the recording saying their hours are from 9am to 7pm on weekends, and even their website say 12pm to 5pm on Sundays. Lots of inconsistencies, unfortunately.
Justin
Mar 29 2010
With regards to telecom troubles, clearly Rogers and Bell are the devil. I am currently with Teksavvy after Bell’s blues (double billing, cutting off service, technicians all from India who can’t speak English and rude as hell), but buyer beware.
Teksavvy is good, I have only had my service cut off once. Pretty cheap too and fast downloads as well.
However, their customer service is horrendous. Or, to be more accurate, it’s very “Canadian” since they’re rude and sarcastic.
I complained to their manager via e-mail, who only responded that if I didn’t like them I could go with Bell or Rogers. You’ve got to love sarcasm like that.
After all, anything is better than Rogers and Bell, but would it really cost you anything to be courteous to the people who help you get a paycheque? Nah!