A tempest in a coffee cup
July 18 2007 by Ellen Roseman
I always pay attention when I get two almost identical complaints within a few days. So, I wrote a column last week about a problem at Second Cup. It seems the small and medium cups for cold drinks are almost the same size, but the medium costs 40 cents more than the small.
Second Cup’s head office told me different stories. The problem was caused by old cups that should have been retired a year ago, when the 360-outlet chain acquired a new logo and changed its cup sizing system. There was also an issue with the small cups, which were actually 18 ounces (not 16 as ordered). When filled to the top, they were close to the medium size (20 ounces).
This week, I did what my two readers did. I bought a small strawberry lemonade and a medium chocolate chiller, both delicious, and drank the contents. Then, I filled them up with water to see how much they held. The interior volume was virtually the same, but disguised by the shapes. The small is short and fat, the medium tall and thin.
I thought this was an interesting story about economic justice. A large Canadian company is pulling one over on customers by selling the same cold drink in small and medium sizes that are not discernibly different. But some readers thought it was trivial and not worth mentioning. I got litres of feedback about this (see comments below). It seems everyone is an expert when it comes to coffee cups.
Matt
Jul 18 2007
You say Second Cup decided to make things simpler a year ago and go back to small, medium and large cups. Until then, it had no small sizes – similar to rival Starbucks, which starts at tall and goes up to grande and venti. Absolutely wrong.
First, Starbucks offers and has always offered, in their particular vocabulary, the “short” size. Secondly, as someone who has avoided the trend of grotesquely large portions of food, I took particular notice a couple of years ago when Second Cup phased out their small-sized cups.
I noticed because one day when I asked for a small coffee, the person behind the counter presented a cup nearly three times as large as what was previously offered and asked, as if I were living in a strange dream where language didn’t make sense, “This size?”.
In a society where we increasingly ask whether we consume too much, whether our portions are too big, whether our health is affected by the seemingly fixed menu of the marketplace, in whose mind was it borne that, paradoxically, “small” should be replaced by something that is in no uncertain terms “large” and insist on this being the standard for their food operations franchise?
JD
Jul 18 2007
I prefer to support local small cafes, which are few and far between these days (the ones that make a decent cup of coffee, that is). The next best thing is Canadian vs. American. Whenever I can, I will go to Second Cup instead of Starbucks. I used to order the small coffee. I don’t need anything oversized, just a nice simple cup of coffee.
But last year, Second Cup decided to phase out their smalls. After reading this article which shed some light on the
subject, I am flummoxed because their small for coffee WAS actually nice and small (unlike their small for chillers) and was comparable to Starbucks “short” (which is what I order when I cave and go to ‘Bucks). Plus it was cheaper. NOW, when I order a coffee from Second Cup, I am forced to either drink too much coffee or throw some away because they no longer offer that size cup anymore. Their small is huge and a few cents more.
I hardly ever go to Second Cup anymore, because at ‘Bucks I can still get a short. I would prefer to support a Canadian company, but I just don’t need that much coffee and I prefer being able to make that choice rather than have it made for me.
Doreen
Jul 18 2007
If you really want a small coffee at Second Cup, you have to ask for an extra small, which is probably 8 oz. and all I can drink at one time. At other places, I sometimes get 2 cups and pour half of their small into the other cup for a friend.
Dave
Jul 18 2007
You should have mentioend the price difference between a small and a medium. There are more important things to worry about in this world than 40 cents.
Vern
Jul 18 2007
I’m not so sure why these ladies are so angry about getting a small that is really the volume of a medium. If I were them, I would be happy to know you can get a deal by buying the small.
David
Jul 18 2007
They don’t need to throw away the old medium cups since they are virtually the same capacity as the new small – so they can use them as small until they have been used up.
IG
Jul 18 2007
I stopped going to Second Cup at least three years ago. I used to frequent a Mississauga location at least once a week and always ordered a specialty coffee beverage. I noticed that they had a new seasonal coffee beverage. The franchisee had entry forms on the counter that allowed the customers to participate in a contest to win a prize to the country that inspired this new beverage. I tried the beverage and filled out the form for a chance to win the trip.
Later, I met a client at a Second Cup location in Markham. Imagine my surprise when I came to the counter and saw the contest entry form attached to a coupon entitling the customer to a FREE cup of the new coffee beverage. That franchisee happily prepared the free beverage (not much smaller than their regular small size). Later in the week, I returned to my usual Second Cup and asked the franchisee where the free beverage coupon was and why he was only using the contest entry form portion of the promotion.
His answer was insulting. He told me that he was simply sending the free beverage coupons to head office to redeem their value. He never had any intention of providing samples to his customers. The contest entry did not affect his profits so he had no problem providing that to his customer. Couple that with inconsistency in product preparation and customer service to see why I no longer patronize Second Cup.
As a customer, I DON’T care if you are a franchisee. I expect consistently good product and good service for my $3.50+ cup of coffee.
Starbucks is consistent in product preparation. If the beverage doesn’t taste right, they will gladly provide you with a new beverage or a coupon for any size coffee beverage with a sincere apology. Their staff go above and beyond in their customer service. As a matter of fact, the staff at the location that I frequent even remember my name when I come in the door. No customer is treated any differently.
Gerald
Jul 18 2007
I purchased one of their iced drinks for my wife a little while back. She asked for a small, received a cup that certainly did not look like a small size and was charged a price that was certainly not a small price (nearly $6).
We asked if they had any actual small sizes, but they said that was the smallest. I guess they do not understand that when someone wants a small size, they generally do not think they can drink more - and certainly do not want to pay for more than they will drink. Anyway,I have not returned to a Second Cup since.
Thanks for your article. I’m glad to see others have noticed these cup size issues.
HW
Jul 18 2007
Your article demonstrates the pettiness of people. Rather than seeing it as good value for the ‘larger’ small (glass half-full), they focused on feeling ripped off by the ‘smaller’ medium (glass half-empty).
Your view that franchisees be forced to throw out perfectly good and unused cups – “no matter what the cost” including presumably to our environment – to cater to these individuals’ sensitivities is astounding.
MK
Jul 18 2007
I’m very fond of the chillers at Second Cup and until this year was able to buy small-sized cups. This year, Second Cup’s new “small size” container is just slightly smaller than a tub — in fact, enormous. Aside from the waste, why should one need to pay for a drink this size only to throw away a quarter of it?
The explanation I was given by customer service is that franchisees, because of space limitations, choose not to stock the smaller cup. Further on in the conversation, the representative mentioned something about the store having overstocked the present (purported) small cup.
The company did send me a $5 voucher for bringing this matter to their attention, but nothing has changed. I still am forced to pay more for a quantity over and above my need. I did offer to pay less for a smaller amount, or bring in my own cup, but this was not an acceptable alternative.
I can choose to forego the product, but hope that bringing the matter to your attention would convince Second Cup to be more responsive to consumer requests.
Ram
Jul 18 2007
I have always been reluctant to go to Second Cup mostly because of their price quality ratio. Their pricing is so close to Starbucks, but quality is so far behind.
Now, they have given me one more reason not to visit their store.
Ernie
Jul 18 2007
40 cents x 3 coffees a week = $1.20 x 48 weeks = $57.60 a year in extra costs, compounded over 30 years at 6% means you forego $2,430…
Dave, I’d love to live in your profligate paradise.
WB
Jul 19 2007
This doesn’t really concern me, as I rarely go to these places. What I find shocking are the comments by those who say that it is too trivial to worry about, or that 40 cents doesn’t matter, etc. I am disappointed that they would condone this kind of dishonesty and deception.
RC
Jul 19 2007
I worked at a Second Cup for a couple of years. A co-worker and I noticed the problem with the NEW cups (that have the new logo printed on them) soon after they came in. THE OLD CUPS WERE FINE.
The franchises are not at fault for this problem and it is important you understand that it is only Second Cup HQ.
Franchises would have no difficulty switching the cups because they get supplies in once a week. Second Cup stores don’t have the room to hold many supplies, so the supplies that come in weekly are absolute key to its functioning. They certainly couldn’t house a year’s worth of old cold cups unless they were being provided by Second Cup HQ every week (and even then the old cups were not the problem!).
The franchises need to buy cold cups every week anyway, so buying the newer cold cups would be quite simple for them. The only difficult part is for Second Cup HQ to admit defeat and change the new small cup. I wouldn’t be surprised that if they do change the cup, they’ll change all the sizes. And the prices. Again.
My co-worker and I explained the issue to customers and encouraged them to buy the small. I’d rather lose my job than cheat people out of their money, especially people that I became close to during my long shifts, and that Second Cup even tells you to get close to for the sake of the atmosphere. But who directly loses out? It’s the franchise owners. And it’s not even their fault!
I don’t understand the draw of franchises. The owners are at the whim of the HQ and their sneaky ways. They don’t need to get wrongly blamed for this.
Jack
Jul 19 2007
Hey folks, 40 cents is certainly not a big amount to all you big spenders. However, next time you order a product from Second Cup, Starbucks etc., ask them to sell it to you for 40 cents less….do you really think they will, why should I???
Bryce
Jul 20 2007
“profligate paradise”???
Really? I think anyone who is buying $3 coffee 3+ times a week for the rest of their lives doesn’t have any right to critique someone else’s extravagance.
Just think how you have the inside track now and can get a medium for small price. So clever.
Jamie
Jul 20 2007
In a similar vein, I’ve twice noticed pricing quirks at the Ontario beer store. They have always marketed that it’s cheaper to buy a 24 case than a smaller quantity (sometimes it’s the same price). However, sometimes it costs MORE to buy the same thing in larger package sizes!
I found one case where they charged MORE for 24 then two 12-unit cases of the same brand. Another time, it cost more for a 12-can case than 12 individual cans of the same brand.
Their email “customer service” contact must be the worst in existence, ignoring initial inquiries, then blowing off follow-ups. However, tracking down the contact to their marketing VP, I did get them to adjust the pricing in both cases.
Billy Paradise
Aug 16 2007
Heads up to all you coffee drinkers… After the recent price increase at Tim Hortons, the price of the extra large did not increase. Still $1.58 in Ontario. A large is almost the same price.
Now, whether you consider Tim Hortons a decent cup of coffee or not is up to you… but that’s another argument.
Julien
Sep 15 2007
The reason pricing is all so similar between a small and a medium is because you are paying for the service, not the content.
It takes the same amount of time to take your order, blend the drink and serve it up to make 16 ounces of chocolate chiller as it does to make 20 ounces.
To expect half the price is laughable, as you are paying for the time and service. That’s why a latte is twice the price of a simple coffee. It’s not the materials, or amount you get. it’s the work involved in its creation.
Josie
May 24 2008
The Second Cup customers started to worry they were getting ripped off for their hot cups of coffee. We had to assure them that the article was only for the cold drinks. There was a major confusion about the author’s research about this subject.
When Second Cup launched their new sizes in 2006, it was obvious (just by looking at them) that the sizes between the small-medium were identical. And the medium-large just the same.
So right away, I tested them and there was no difference in ounces, just the pricing. I’m not sure why people didn’t notice this from the beginning, when it’s common sense.
The fault is Second Cup’s head office, which pushes these products to the franchisees and franchisees have to sell them to the customers. It’s a chain reaction and can only stop where it originally started.