Is the price right at Tim Hortons?
April 19 2007 by Ellen Roseman
The coffee is a great deal, but you may get clipped by cashier error if you order food to go with it. A reader, Ross T in Kingston, has found frequent mispricing.
Purchase 1 Medium Coffee, 1 Donut, 1 Chicken Salad sandwich under the sandwich deal. Last year, I went to several different Tim Hortons and they seemed to overcharge me more often than they got it right. The deal is $3.99 plus tax. The correct total should be $4.23 but I’ve been charged $4.89.
Meals of $3.99 or less are exempt from Ontario sales tax. Only GST should be charged. However, even with 14% sales taxes, it shouldn’t add up to $4.89.
Sometimes the clerks redo the transaction and sometimes the managers have to be summoned. Just imagine the hundreds of thousands of meals sold every day and the mistaken overcharges.
Ross later realized that other meals could be mispriced, not just the $3.99 sandwich deal, when he went to Tim Hortons with a friend.
They must have seen me coming, since they got my order right. My friend bought a BLT sandwich deal for $5.25 and the total was $6.80. When I questioned the amount, it was soon corrected to a $5.99 total.
I don’t believe the problem is related to sales tax, but to pushing the wrong buttons on the cash register at the customer’s expense.
So, here’s what I want to know. Have you had the same problem? Tim Hortons is busy, with line-ups out the door and lots of part-time staff. Maybe other fast food chains are vulnerable to pricing errors, too.
Mark
Apr 19 2007
It is very difficult for most people to grasp that an item may, or may not, be taxable depending on the circumstances and context in which it is purchased.
If an item is purchased in a restaurant, it’s one thing, and if purchased from a vending machine, another. Then, further, even the identical item purchased in that same restaurant may be treated differently.
Ellen, I presume you understand this absurdity.
A can of COKE - Taxed with PST & GST in a vending machine.
A can of COKE purchased alone in a restaurant - both PST & GST apply.
A can of COKE purchased with a muffin - now forming part of a meal under $4 - ONLY the GST applies.
A BAGEL - Taxed with ONLY GST in a vending machine.
A BAGEL - purchased alone in a restaurant - ONLY GST applies.
A BAGEL - purchased with a can of COKE - now forming part of a meal UNDER $4 - ONLY the GST applies.
A BAGEL - purchased with other items - now forming part of a meal OVER $4 - both PST & GST apply.
A BAGEL - When purchased in a quantity of SIX or MORE, wherever purchased - NEITHER GST or PST is applicable.
Since a muffin is defined as a sweetened baked good, the above scenarios WOULD NOT BE THE SAME!
Hopefully I have got all of the above scenarios correct. So, with so many combinations and permutations possible, it is tough for anyone to get everything correct.
I don’t even think accountants could get this right!
Public policy is served by NOT TAXING a prepared meal under $4.
(Should have been raised to $6 years ago, though the implications of COST-PUSH inflation would apply.) To make an item taxable or not taxable, in and of itself, would make
the application of tax and collection of tax easier for everyone. Far too much confusion exists.
A flat rate sales tax has some merit. It’s easier to deal with when applied equally over all applicable items. NO EXEMPTIONS. NO EXCEPTIONS. It is or it isn’t taxable.
Far too much knowledge is presumed on the part of any cashier, be it in a restaurant or a grocery store. It amazes me some of the creative excuse made at DOLLARAMA when attempting to charge BOTH taxes on a 500g package of cookies. “Well,
they’re mostly sugar.” So, why doesn’t the bag of sugar on the shelf have tax? That they can’t answer.
Mr. Cheap
May 23 2007
My father always orders the same things at Tim’s and he jokes that he’s always charged a different amount. He takes a philosphical perspective on it and assumes he’s being over and under charged some of the time, so it probably all works out. I think they need to revamp the Point-of-sale system, as its obviously not working properly for their process and hasn’t for quite a long time.
ML
May 23 2007
To be fair to Tim’s, I have found that the same errors occur at their competitors as well. They are quite common all through the industry.
Rick
Jun 5 2007
I had a similar problem. At Tim Horton’s a coffee and a breakfast sandwich cost me $4.22, but with a fritter, $5.45. I got quite irate at being charged more than $1.20 for an 80 cent donut.
When the manager was brought in, she punched the amount in and got the same result. That was good enough for her, but not for me.
Someone in the restaurant should know the rules for how customers are charged, certainly the manager should.
Beth
Jun 7 2007
What I do know is that if I buy an iced cappuccino for myself and a coffee for my husband separately, it’s cheaper than if I buy them together. This irritates some employees.
Andree
Jun 14 2007
I would like to know why I pay $2.64 for a cheese croissant and large coffee at every Tim Hortons except for one.
I was told almost politely today that, after checking the cash register, the total came to $2.71 and that’s all there is to it…
Well that’s not good enough for me. I want to know why one store can charge more than all others…I travel extensively and get to stop at many Tim’s and the price is consistent everywhere else!
LB
Jun 20 2007
This afternoon at the McDonald’s in Brampton, I asked for a Southwest Chicken sandwich combo. It was clearly marked as $6.99. If you add the 14% tax, the bill should be $7.97.
Instead I was asked to pay $8.09. When I challenged this, a manager came up to explain that with tax, it was $8.09. I explained to her that $6.99 plus 14% is $$7.97, not $8.09.
She ran the order through the machine again and again… and it coughed up a total of $8.09. The whole attitude was that I was wrong and the machine was right. In the end, she did give me 12 cents back, but how many people do you think would realize the error and bring it to the attention of the attendant for a 12 cent difference?
Meanwhile, McDonald’s collects 12 cents more from every client who orders the new Southwest chicken combo, which would add up to a tidy sum.
julie
Jun 27 2007
It all depends on what you get in this “deal” if you order what the combo comes with, which is the sandwich, medium coffee, a donut or 2 cookies. If you order something different from those 3 things, the prices will change, like if you get a danish or a larger sized coffee…but sometimes, yes, employees do get things wrong and that’s cuz they haven’t been trained right or a slip of a finger on a button. Don’t blame the employee. Blame the people who make the decision who is to train these people
Just to let you know, the prices are going up in July, so try not to complain to employees about this problem. It’s not like we are seeing any of this money.
jamie
Jun 29 2007
Charging tax incorrectly in Ontario happens at more then fast food joints.
Children’s clothes and any shoe under $30 are exempt from provincial sales tax. A recent order from Sportmart.ca incorrectly charged the tax. An email response from them indicated they advise people to let them know their purchase is tax-exempt. The problem is the only place this is mentioned is by clicking the FAQ link and scrolling waaay down. There is no mention during the checkout process, so I imagine most people overpay tax. I was also charged tax on exempt shoes at fellow Forzani-owned Sportchek’s local store.
Another quirk with sales tax is Canada Post postage. If mail is sent to locations outside Canada, postage is tax-exempt when purchased at an outlet in the amount of $5 or more. The $5 can be a single item or combination of letters to total $5. I was overcharged a number of times at a Shoppers Drug Mart outlet, complained to Canada Post, and heard they had dealt with the outlet. Months later they still were charging tax wrong. I had a very bad confrontation with the staff who sarcastically claimed I didn’t know what I was talking about, then ridiculed me for having an issue with the low dollar amount after their call to Canada Post proved me correct. A follow-up call from Shoppers’ head office advised they had talked to the postal supervisor at that location, who said it was correct to charge GST on $5+ international mail. So it was clear they had overcharged every single customer for years.
The tax treatment for manufacturer coupons is another common area of mischarging. When the coupon is for a free item rather than a specific dollar amount, there is no tax. The A&P got it wrong at multiple locations every time. One local supervisor demanded I bring in the tax guide showing it, as they were positive it didn’t, so I went right back to the store with the guide and presented it to the manager. I got a letter of apology and gift certificate from head office…and the store got it wrong again the next time.
Jaz
Jul 5 2007
When it comes to the combo pricing, you do have to watch what you order. For example, a soup deal comes with a biscuit; if you want a tea biscuit you pay more. The combo is priced with a can of pop; if you want juice or a bottle, you pay more. You want a croissant instead of a donut, you pay more. In order to get the deal at the price posted, you have to order the meal exactly as it is advertised.
Jeni
Jul 23 2007
I wonder if the amount being over taxed is being pocketed by the company or if they are in turn sending this on to the Government….
I suspect it’s being pocketed. And I suspect they’re aware of how often this happens. They’ve probably done the math in calculating how many customers they lose over this practice versus the cost of upgrading the POS and decided it’s not worth it.
I’m not specifically referring to Tim’s here… but all the many places that this over taxing is so common.
michael
Aug 28 2007
I wonder what legal action we all have in terms of making companies more aware of this. I too suspect they pocket the extra revenue generated through overcharging and incorrect charges.
Wouldn’t this be considered a form of fraud, since the sales tax money should go to the Canada Revenue Agency and provincial governments and not line the pockets of companies?
Tim Hortons Employee
Sep 16 2007
In many cases the employee fails to punch in the combo button, which means you do not get charged the correct amout. Next time you seem to be overcharged, politley ask the employee if they punchedi n the combo button
Sam
Sep 17 2007
Whenever you are overcharged with a sandwich combo, always make sure that the cashier has pressed the button on the POS that says sandwich deal. Most of the time, the staff disregards and are always careless.
Denise
Oct 21 2007
I find the error is with the sales tax. When you order a large coffee and breakfast sandwich, the price is $4.03 (approximately). BUT when you add a donut, the total is $5.25!! Why is there a such a big difference for one donut?
I was told by one employee that they didn’t know why, but it was programmed in the cash register! So the next time, I ordered the donut separately. I paid $4.03 for the coffee and sandwich. THEN I paid 90 cents for the donut!
I wonder how many have realized this tax difference.
Meagan
Dec 14 2007
I work at Timmies. A lot of people do complain about the taxes and how they should be lowered (I’m not saying they shouldn’t be lowered). But I agree with Julie. Don’t blame the employees, blame the people who train them by doing the wrong things.
Sometimes, just a complaint can put us into a very mad mood because it isn’t our fault, yet we get the blame. So just remember, Tim Hortons employees are people too.
suzanna
Mar 8 2008
I would just like to say something about the comment on how “maybe staff are pushing the wrong buttons” . I worked full time at a Tim Hortons for 3 years, and if customers would let the staff think about things before getting angry cuz “it’s taking too long”, “they are late for work,” then the staff wouldn’t make mistakes. We all know what we are doing, but lots of people don’t deal well with pressure.
It’s not our fault you are late for work and are now in a hurry. so please next time you visit your local Tim Hortons… just remember to be patient and they should get your order right!
Doug Lippay
Mar 25 2008
I know a little about cash registers and POS systems. If the wrong amount shows up in the tax portion of the receipt, it will show up again when the cash register is cleared off at the end of the day. So….the money gets sent off to Ottawa or Queen’s Park.
The thing for the customer to keep in mind is that the two taxes are not harmonized, that different items qualify or do not qualify for being taxed, and that there are many many weird little quirks in the tax system. For example, five muffins purchased would trigger both GST and PST, buy 6 and no tax….
The tax rules are complicated enough for someone who is supposed to be able to program the cash register, let alone the poor staff people who try to explain the crazy rules to a customer!
New in town
Mar 28 2008
I just got a job at Tim Hortons. Please be nice, because I am now officially terrified of the customers — and all the other stuff that people say about Tim’s.
jane
May 17 2008
Buy 6 muffins and no tax?
Curiously, a man at McDonald’s came in today and asked for 6 muffins with no tax, confused the lady who punched it in and tax came up. The man set off a fuse….said he didn’t mind the extra cents, but it was the principle of the thing.
Well, the manager asked another manager and said it didn’t exist — the whole 6 muffins, no tax.
Now I’m confused. Any of you know if this is true? I would love to know. Thanks:)
Frugal Canadian Living
May 23 2008
A lot of people overpay Retail Sales Tax when they don’t have to. It could be a lack of knowledge about the law or a can’t-be-bothered attitude.
On Frugal Canadian Living, I wrote an article on the amount of sales tax collected in Ontario because Ontarians did not make food purchases properly.
http://frugalcanadianliving.blogspot.com/2008/01/provincial-sales-tax-in-ontario.html
There was even a provincial report distributed that suggested the Retail Sales Tax Act R.S.O. 1990 should be modified to eliminate a “loophole” that made prepared food $3.99 and less PST-free.
Tara G
May 25 2008
My sister and I went to a Tim Hortons up the street and we bought a small ice cap supreme and a small ice cap. The total came to $6.13.
I couldn’t believe it. I was so amazed I checked the prices on my phone with the tax and it came to only $5. Then I realized the stupid cashier had charged us tax on the items individually, then charged tax on the whole thing.
They better get their prices fixed or they’ll find themselves in trouble.
j
Jun 5 2008
Hi! Does anybody know how much an afternoon-shift-supervisor gets an hour??? I think one of the owners is not paying the right amount.
A 75-cent difference over a regular employee doesn’t make sense at all, because in that shift, the supervisor is the boss as well — and will have all the responsibilities on his shift.
H
Jun 12 2008
I would like to add that I went into a Tim Hortons this week and the person in front of me was short 23 cents. Instead of him having to go to an ATM to take out money, the cashier deleted the entire order and rang everything through separately.
Much to my surprise, and the gentleman’s surprise, he not only had enough money now… but he ended up having money left to spare!! Figure that out! There is no way you can tell me that something isn’t wrong with that!
Julia
Jul 20 2008
I have been working at Tim Hortons in Ottawa for about a month now, and I have to say that Tim’s cash register system is very disorganized. All of the buttons for different foods are all over the place. And about the combos, it is because the cashier didn’t press the combo deal button at the end of the order. When someone buys a sandwich, a drink, and a donut, it is qualified for the deal. When all 3 things are punched into the cash, a screen pops up and asks if the customer wants the sandwich deal. You can either press yes or no. Tim Hortons is always really busy though, so I’m sure cashiers just press no without even realizing.
Jimmy
Aug 27 2008
how can that exemption still be at 3.99 only when since that was implemented prices have gone up significantly with inflation?
shouldn’t that be 5.99 now?
John Smith
Sep 15 2008
Timothy’s Coffee Canada
5150 Yonge Street
North York City Centre
M2N 6L9
(416) 250-5168
At this location, it charges customers more money at the cash register than what is posted as the store price.
e.g. Chai Latte is $3.21 on the posted menu, but on the cash register it is punched in at $3.29.
The store owner is doing this on all his products.
NOT a very honest business practice.
Jimmy Hamilton
Oct 22 2008
I try to never go to Tim Hortons anywhere in the GTA, but sometimes I have no choice. Apart from the pricing errors,what really bugs me is their getting the order wrong about 80% of the time.
Even when they are not busy, a simple order — Tea with Milk — is usually screwed up. Of course, this is compounded by the fact I don’t notice it till I am back at my desk.
Just happened again. That’s when I found this site.
Standards are dropping all over. It is not them that will change, it is us who will just have to get used to it.
Last one to leave, turn off the lights.
Jimmy
(Out of town, Alliston, Collingwood, anywhere else, No Problemo)
Candace
Dec 3 2008
Hey, I used to work at Timmy’s. The customers scream and yell if it comes up as more money. It’s not always our fault.
I understand that we should be trained properly. But sometimes, the managers and owners are so mean. Our manager would make girls cry even! But if you keep having these problems about money, then don’t go there. The coffee isn’t that great and the food isn’t either.
I got fired from Timmy’s and they didnt even call me or give me anything!! How I knew I got fired was when a girl that worked there texted me. To this day, they still haven’t told me. I just dropped off my outfit and got my last pay and they still didn’t tell me.
Something’s wrong there if you ask me. They fired me because I gave someone my shift because she needed more shifts…so they thought I didn’t want to work there. wow!!!
Dana-lee
Dec 18 2008
At Tim Hortons, it’s not the cash registers that are wrong. It is the training involved in using them.
Our government gives hoards of money to giant companies like this for training through tax cuts and so on. We here in Canada should ask ourselves “are our tax dollars really being used properly?”
This supposed training that is being given (or should I say lack of training?) is also used by owners of the franchises to squander your pennies. Only if there is a complaint by one person will it be returned.
If the many could see what actually happens when someone is hired at a Tim Hortons, you would understand why the price differs so greatly.
It seems that if you ask for clarification from the TDL group (as an employee or not) as to why this happens so frequently, the franchise card is drawn and the answer lays with solely with the owner of the location.
Of course, the owner will be happy to help someone at the time of a complaint, because that is the policy. He or she does not actually lose anything, but rather gains the person as a return customer.
It will happen again in two weeks as a new employee is added and not trained properly. And the cycle is continued.
Stan Hall
Jan 14 2009
When I went to the Admiral Road Tim Hortons in London Ont., I made two separate orders. The reason was simple: there were two of us and I was not buying for my buddy.
I was told they could not do separate orders. I said why not? There are two of us in this vehicle. They were laughing at me and my friend, so when I drove up to the window, I said I didn’t want it and I would never come back to this location.
I called the owner. Ron Sparling, who said he was the manager, called me right back. Nice enough fellow, but he told me this was head office policy so people can’t cheat on the tax being charged.
I never thought about it that way. But now that I do, I thought screw the tax, if I can save a nickel I will.
But I then went to Williams Coffee Pub in London and a large Coffee is only $1.04 including tax. I used to stop four or five times each day for coffee. Tim Hortons, you’re now missing all my business. I refuse to go back as their prices go up and they laugh in my face.
Who is laughing now? It certainly is not you.
Cheers
Stan Hall, London
Remember we are not all “Can-Am-Da-Cans” Canadians and Americans. We are Canadians and we ask for a pop, not a soda. What the hell is a soda?
Stan Hall
Jan 14 2009
If you all stop going to Tim Hortons, I will bet you a dollar to a doughnut the price of coffee goes down, way down. I can’t believe I spend over $150 each month at Tim Hortons. I now can buy more beer.
James
Jan 17 2009
My wife likes Tim Hortons tea.
An extra large is $1.56 + taxes.
1.56 * 1.05 (current GST rate) = 1.638 (1.64 for rounding sake)
1.56 * 1.06 (old GST rate) = 1.6536 (1.65 for rounding sake)
Guess which amount every store in our city charges? Here’s a hint, I believe without a doubt it’s an issue with tax rates programmed into registers and it only gets worse when the orders get larger.
JoAnne
Feb 10 2009
I recently asked the Ontario government about why there were differences in charging PST for a whole food product I purchase regularly. I already know this product (Vega Smoothie Infusion) used to be labelled “No GST” until our wonderful federal government decided to cash in on the supplemental food industry, which includes vitamins and minerals as well as supplemental food products. I always believed that PST was a no-no.
I talked to Ms. Fraser and used the following example:
I recently purchased a whole food product at my local big box grocery store (Real Canadian Superstore), where I was charged GST but no PST ($29.99 + $1.50 = $31.49).
I then went online to shop around for this product and found the online store I was dealing with charged both GST and PST. So, my question is, why?
Here was Ms. Fraser’s answer:
“It’s pretty much subjective. A retailer, whether online or otherwise, can choose to use the wording on the label regarding the use of the product to decide whether they will charge PST or not.”
In other words, Ms. Fraser advised, if the product claims to aid digestion or increase bone density or circulation, etc., then PST could, according to tax laws, be charged.
So, basically, I was told, no matter what the ingredients are, even if they are of all natural form food ingredients, this means nothing. As long as the wording makes claims about the products use(s), then PST can be charged. Huh? Go figure? Who would’ve thunk it?
Personally, I find this reasoning to be appalling. Can anyone else make this any clearer?
To be honest, I don’t know if I been given a correct answer to my question. Also, I’m hoping that one day a bag of milk won’t be charged PST because the label on it says it builds healthy bones…which maybe it already does.
I’m just bewildered.
Odessa
Mar 12 2009
I’m a worker of Timmies for over 2 years and I find many people tend to order other items, instead of the regular combo, which includes a medium coffee/tea or a can of drink, a donut and the small sandwich.
The sandwich type will change the price, as some have more condiments. If you change the items to be larger or different from the donut, then the price will change.
As well, even if you add the 13% tax, as I have found in experiments, it does not always come out to the correct price. It is usually cheaper.
I have heard from many customers that I have served that the prices are different in Toronto. So there are many factors contributing to the price difference.
In addition, the new tills that my store has (and many others, I’m sure) automatically ask if you want to add the combo, and thus force us to press yes.
So hope this helps, and good luck to all for Roll Up!:D
DBLDBL
Mar 21 2009
You know the thing that bothers me, Tim Hortons donates millions and millions of dollars for needy children across Canada and the U S every year. And all you people worry about is that .8 cent discount. I think this place would be a better place to live if we didn’t worry about the little things.
So next time you visit your local Tim Hortons, remember what this company has done for all the less fortunate kids and sick kids across this country!!!!!
MAC
Mar 24 2009
How nice of Tim Hortons to donate millions and millions of dollars - they can afford to do this from overcharging all their customers on a daily basis.
Tim Hortons also litters our country with millions and millions of un-environmental cups and containers each year.
They are not the good guys, please don’t make them out to be so.
DBLDBL
Apr 7 2009
Is it Tim Hortons who litters or the customer like you?
By the way Tim’s coffee is cheaper than 7-11.
James
May 12 2009
Quick update: all the Tim’s locations in my area have now updated their pricing to XL tea and coffee at $1.57 so that, at least until PST/GST harmonization, it now works out to $1.65 after tax. And no, I didn’t see any signs in stores. No employees I’ve spoken with even knew of the change in pre-tax price.
cathy emery
May 17 2009
When in doubt, call the tax office.
I worked in retail and learned as much as I was able to about sales tax. When people argued, I would call the tax office.
I was told in Canadian Tire that shoes $30 and under were not PST free, so I spoke with the manager, who put it to the employee who set the machines.
I asked: Should not this person know the tax laws? Retail tax office does send copies to these companies. I finished up calling the tax office and asking them to speak with them.
I have also had this problem in Sears. We pay far too much tax as it is, without paying more than we should.
Dana Deep
May 18 2009
The problem sometimes is simply employees don’t press Soup Deal button at the end.
I worked there last year. The manager was an absolute idiot who took advantage of young kids and women that spoke broken English.
For example, she always made last minute scheduling changes and got mad when you said you could not make your shift because of the change. Young students are hesitant to stand up for themselves because we need the job for $.
The managers were both extremely overweight women, who came to the front only to grab a snack or drink then go gossip in the office.
Tim Horton’s does many things for the community, but so do the customers and employees who come in. Do you really think the money that is miscalculated is given to needy kids?
People are generous and willing to support causes, but that doesn’t make it OK to suggest that pricing errors are justified because of the fact Tim Ho’s has charitable connections. People have a right to know where their money is going!
I am positive most of the people posting here donate to charitable causes or maybe they can’t afford to, maybe they have children to support. Who are you to say the “world would be a better place” and “all you people”…..you don’t know us all.
The thing that bugs me is people who say these things and think they are somehow better than everyone because they don’t have to worry about where their money is going.
There’s a way to promote and fundraise for charity — and it’s not through making sales calculation errors — that is, if those errors even go to charity - which I doubt.
jeff
Jun 13 2009
Now, people, if you ever had an idea on how things work in this business, you would see that the people who order at Tims will change their order at the till with no regards to who they are dealing with.
The cashiers see hundreds of people every day and no two are the same. We treat each one every one as we would like to be treated.
So, think about it the next time you have a bad morning, be thoughtful to the person on the other side of the counter. We try to make your day as nice as can be….
Thanks for letting bend your ear.
Eric
Jul 22 2009
I go to Tims everyday to get coffee for myself and my coworkers and I always separate my orders. Such as 1 large and 2 mediums, it will come up to $4.05 tax included and so on.
This morning I actually brought 6 XL black and 1 dozen muffins. I paid 2 XL coffee 3 times (1 tax) and paid the dozen muffins (no tax) separately. The total came up to just under 20 bucks. I asked them for extra cups, sugar/cream/milk on the side (we are all sharing).
The cashier has no problem with me separating the orders – (although sometimes I cause a lineup behind me). But I believe we pay too much taxes and the under 4 bucks one tax should be increased to at least 6 bucks.
I remember back in the days at Mcdonalds when all large sandwich combos were all $3.99 and we only needed to pay 1 tax.
Also back then Tim’s chicken salad sandwich combo was $3.99 and I always got that. Then they bumped it to $4.25 and that’s when I stopped getting that combo =(
SL
Jul 30 2009
Letter to Tim Horton’s, Head Office, 874 Sinclair Road,
Oakville, ON L6K 2Y1
Attention : Vice-President, Customer Relations
Dear Sir / Madam,
I would like to share a story and an experience with you that relates to your product(s) and service(s).
I have long been a Customer (you’ll notice that Customer is capitalized here and hereafter) at Tim Hortons, based on good coffee, convenience and price point.
Throughout the many years that I have frequented Tim Hortons, I have experienced ineptitude and poor customer service – particularly in the GTA – and have suffered along with what turns out to be many, many dissatisfied Timmie’s Customers.
I have one friend who commutes from Oshawa to Scarborough to Mississauga to Oshawa daily and has often recounted his experiences in playing “Tim Hortons”. His description of this game is, “I drive into the drive thru, place my order, and see what they give me.”
While this sounds facetious, he is most sincere in his tongue in cheek complaint.
I have personally experienced far too many order errors in relation to the simplicity of filling a coffee and donut order. I even used to complain.
There was a day when Tim Hortons – either the store or Head Office – would apologize and offer a complimentary coffee as a way of correcting the mistake. That no longer happens.
At the store level, they shrug their shoulders as if to say, “oh well” and at Head Office they refer responsibility to the store.
Another inconvenience suffered by the Customer was the inability to use a debit card for payment. I understood this policy as I suspected that bank debit fees were unacceptable in relation to the margins related to a $1.15 cup of coffee.
So I waited – albeit years – and Tim Hortons introduced the Tim Card. What a great idea. Now I could just load up a card and didn’t need to worry about finding change.
This was particularly helpful because I often go out for a Timmie’s during the work day and bring back between eight and a dozen coffees for the entire office. It’s a running joke that my trips restart the office on particularly busy days.
In fact, just this morning I had my annual performance review and was complimented on my thoughtfulness and generosity in bringing coffees back for my co-workers.
And, after a big coffee run, I could even go online and load up my Tim Card. I could also merge cards into one card online. What a great convenience. And here is where the story goes bad.
I have been doing these coffee runs for a very long time. However, I have only begun using the Tim Card in the past year or so. At first I used and discarded the cards.
Then, this past winter, Tim’s came up with a Tim Bits Hockey Card. My son played minor hockey and I was actively involved as a volunteer and a manager. I think the Tim Bits program is excellent and I was immediately endeared to the Tim Bits Tim Card. Since getting the card I have merged cards, reloaded, and stayed with my hockey card.
As a means of appreciation for my coffee runs, co-workers would often buy me a Tim Card. Because I favoured my hockey card, I just merged the cards. If I was not able to go online, I had the funds transferred at the store. In fact, I had two cards merged just this week.
As such, imagine my surprise when one of my co-workers handed me a $20 Tim Card this morning and told me to merge it onto my card and give her the card back so she could reload it whenever she wanted to “contribute to my coffee fund”. I went online to do that and realized that, in order to merge them, I would have to expose her pin number.
I didn’t know if she would then be able to reload it again so I figured that, as long as I was on my way to the store, I might as well have the store merge it.
Well, the surprises didn’t end there. I got to the store and asked them to transfer the funds from the “gift card” to my “hockey card”. I was told, “sorry, can’t do that. It’s against policy” (the explanation even came with the customary Tim Hortons shrug).
That seemed incredibly stupid to me, so I explained that I had had two cards transferred earlier this week. Same answer. I then bypassed the shrugging service rep and asked to speak to the Manager.
Albeit a futile effort, I explained the situation and was immediately trumped with “company policy”. So, I tried to figure out how this company policy was arrived at.
Potential theft? Potential fraud? Possibly. But if someone was actually going to rob Tim Hortons or defraud a poor customer, would they really target a gift card that has a $100 maximum?
Possibly, however, it seems like a rather low bar to set.
So, what could it be? Oh yes, efficiency. Did someone at Tim Hortons suddenly realize that merging cards or transferring amounts was interfering with the rocket quick service that the customer was getting? Maybe so. So how do they solve that?
In the infinite wisdom of Tim Hortons, they target the high volume or frequent buyer Customer who has actually chosen to load and use a Tim Card. And, then they make sure that the Customer can’t conveniently merge or transfer cards without finding a computer and doing it themselves online. Brilliant.
Now, I could stop going to Tim Hortons – and I should – but that would mean that I would lose the benefit of good coffee, convenience and price point. It would also mean that my coworkers would not get free coffees, the increased boost of energy a mid-afternoon coffee offers, and the increased comradery that the coffee break offers.
Unfortunately, I guess I will just have to accept that the buyer is just an ignorant cash cow to Tim Hortons and accept that Tim Hortons could give a damn about Customer Service.
I once joked to my wife that the best way to “get even” with Tim Hortons would be to assure that every time I visited, I would throw my Tim Horton logoed bag or cup on the street near a Tim Hortons store so that eventual litter complaints necessitated dedicating staff to clean up the litter.
If Tim Hortons was going to “choose” not to provide good Customer service, then let them pay staff to clean up their “mess”. Due to the obvious irresponsibility of the action, it was naturally discarded and laughed about. I’m seriously reconsidering now.
Maybe I’ll start a blog and invite every disgruntled Tim Hortons Customer to voice their displeasure with “litter” (relax, I’m just kidding).
It is very hard to believe that Tim Hortons cannot accurately and efficiently serve a cup of coffee and a donut without aggravating and irritating their Customers.
It is equally hard to believe that Tim Hortons cannot provide ease of use and convenience to Customers who identify themselves as high volume users and, subsequently, choose to use things like the Tim Card.
Tim Hortons needs to do a lot of inward looking to see what is most important to their corporate health. Profits? Or the people who give you those profits – the Customer?
I remain a Tim Hortons Customer, however reluctantly. It will be interesting to see exactly what it will take to make me realize that if Tim Hortons doesn’t value me as a Customer, why should I give them my business?
Mary
Aug 21 2009
A few years ago (maybe 10) in the UK, the makers of some sauce were fined a great deal of money for underfilling their bottles by about an inch and a half. They had been doing it for years and it had saved them a lot of money.
However there are rules that prohibit advertising that a container should contain “x” amount of product by weight and volume and filling it less. They sometimes do get into trouble, but the government agency was the only one that benefited. I didn’t see any free bottles of sauce anywhere to make up for what I had been short bottled!
Tim Horton’s, that great Canadian institution, has had some bad press in the past year and should be training their staff a bit more carefully and their managers better in public relations!
DBLDBL
Sep 5 2009
HEY SL WHY DONT YOU GO BEHIND THE COUNTER AND SEE HOW YOU DO AFTER AN 8 HR SHIFT? BET YOU WOULDNT LAST 2 HRS.
Bev
Sep 14 2009
Why, oh why, do the people of this country constantly pick on Tim Hortons? What have they done to you?
Try some big American corporation like McDonald’s for a change. I don’t see any of them over in Afghanistan with our troops!!!
Mario
Sep 26 2009
Bev, the reason why are we picking on Tim Hortons is because they are insulting me by thinking we are stupid and can’t add 2+2.
For example, last night I ordered 3 large coffees. One coffee is $1.52 when you order single. However, the lady at the register charged $4.99 for three.
My math is $1.52 + $1.52 + $1.52 = $4.56, so it couldn’t be $4.99, but the lady insisted “that’s just the way it is. When you order more, you pay more”.
Try to do math - there’s NO WAY to come up with that number, regardless if it is charged GST+PST or GST only or PST only, the numbers just don’t add up.
Even if you wrongly round decimals, it still cant make $4.99 (one coffee is $1.45 before taxes).
Norah
Oct 10 2009
Hi. I happen to work at a Tim Hortons and although I understand your anger at being charged the “wrong” price (I really do), there are situations where our tills simply don’t make sense.
With some orders, it adds up to $4.99 for three large coffees, where logic would make appear to cost only $4.56.
If you think that there has been a mistake with your order, simply ask for a receipt. It will show you everything you were charged for.
If you have an issue, talk to the employee. Also, might I mention that if you ever receive an incorrect order, we’re usually happy to replace it.
There was a woman who came in tonight and we replaced her order because she accidently said “double double”, she even admitted it, but we replaced it regardless.
If you can’t get there right away, call and explain what happened. They will write down your name and you can get your order replaced at a later time.
I happen to like my customers, and I apologize if there are some Tim’s employees who don’t. However, I assure you that they shouldn’t reflect on every employee.
And one last thing, my store owners recently put in for all new tills. These “smart” tills scan your order for any possible combos, and if there are any possible deals, it pops up in a two inch type font. So there should be less errors due to lack of combos being punched in.
Enjoy your coffee!
Coffee Freak
Oct 31 2009
Hey Guys,
Forget Timmies coffee. McD’s is where it’s at!! Cheaper, better tasting and much better service - employees are kids - not middle age ladies who are bitter!
Question on Smile Cookies
Nov 18 2009
Hello, just a question from a piqued mind… Who gets the tax $ from Smile Cookies? I thought NFPs were exempt from taxation?
Tim’s claims “all of the proceeds”, but that doesn’t seem to warrant a tax? Anyone more economically savvy, please let me know what’s going on here.
LH
Jan 9 2010
Hi Ellen,
I want to take a moment and share an incident that happened earlier today. I hope it will help others avoid the same situation I faced and I would like to kindly request your help in escalating the matter to the right people.
This morning at around 11am I stopped by the Tim Hortons on Highway 10 and Mayfield Road in North Brampton. I live just around the corner and stop by there frequently (three times this week alone). I went through the drive-thru and ordered 2 large coffees, a medium coffee, and half a dozen muffins.
The cashier told me my total was $15.49. Initially I thought it was a little bit too much but since I was in a hurry I just gave her a $20 bill and was on my way home.
As I was sitting and actually drinking what I just bought, I said to myself I must have been ripped off because $15 for all this is just too much.
About two hours later I stopped by the same Tim Hortons and asked to speak to the manager. Her name is Silvana. I politely explained to her what happened. She input what I ordered and it turns out the total was $10 exactly. Hence, I was overcharged $5.49.
I told her the time I placed my order and I described the person who took my order and money. I also told her I’m a regular customer and so do other members of my family and that I would appreciate if she can refund the amount I was overcharged.
From the onset, she was quite rude, dismissive, and refused to even consider my request for a refund. She scrutinized me about asking for a refund and said she doesn’t know any employee based on the description I gave her. She proceeded to say that the only way she would consider refunding the difference is if her till is over at the end of the day. If it’s under she said she owes me nothing.
I told her this was completely unacceptable as her till can be under due to factors that are completely beyond my control, including her own employees accidentally undercharging customers just as they overcharged me.
She countered by saying that I should have asked for a receipt. I asked her how many times a day do they issue receipts to people who pay in cash and for a small order like mine? She refused to answer. All she said was they do give receipts but it’s the customer’s responsibility to ask for it.
Huh?! Shouldn’t the onus be on YOU as an operator of a business to ensure that your employees charge your customers the correct price? Don’t get me wrong, I understand mistakes can happen. But it’s how you work to rectify them that determines whether you’re a business professional or not.
She said she will check her till at the end of the day and give me a call but beyond that she can’t help me.
Surely enough two hours later, at around 4.30pm (I take it that’s the end of the day for them), she calls me and says that her till is under “big time” and she will not be refunding anything. I told her if that’s her position I want to speak to a district supervisor or area manager and for her to provide me with their name and number.
She refused to give me any information. I told her I would go through head office to resolve this matter and she said “that’s fine with me, go ahead”. It’s as though she wanted me to take that route and get myself off her back, figuring that I’d probably just give it a rest and accept the reason I was overcharged was my fault.
Now it’s a matter of principle.
I would like to ask if you know someone at Tim Hortons’ head office that I can get in touch with. I really would like my money back (the difference, that is) and I’d rather give that money to charity, as small as the amount is, rather than have it sit in the till of that undeserving dimwit.
It’s obvious that head office doesn’t train any of their franchisees or employees about customer service and dispute resolution. All head office cares about is getting people to pay the franchise fee and get the place going, while all the franchisees care about is making money. Customer service is substandard and apparently all head office and the franchisees do is relegate customer complaints from one party to the other.
Steve T
Feb 4 2010
Hi! I think I realize your error. I work at Tim Hortons!
The deal comes with 1 Sandwich (every kind has different prices), as well as a medium coffee (french vanilla costs more) and a donut (anything else besides a donut will change the total price, i.e muffin, danish, etc.).
So have you been having a muffin in place of the donut? Or a large coffee or a french vanilla in place of the medium coffee/tea?
At Tim Hortons, I see this happen on a regular basis. It’s not the issue of the cashier. It’s that the customers don’t know how to order and it’s OUR job to help them realize this!
Sorry about the mix up and hope this doesn’t happen any more
Yycguy
Feb 4 2010
I used to work for Tim Hortons. I’ve worked pretty much all positions except for Manager and above; however, been Assistant manager, supervisor, baker, front counter and drive thru, oh and sandwich guy.
I hate to say that the service Tim Hortons does provide is ridiculously terrible. And it starts from the top.
Owners care about the money in their pocket. Managers aren’t really trained well at all, which means the Supervisors aren’t trained at all — and in turn, only sheds untrained knowledge and poor habits onto the future employees of Timmies, being the new hires.
This alone is part of the bane of Timmies. But I’m not even going to touch that, since we all know customer service is horrible.
I’m from Ontario, and I thought service was poor there. Come to Calgary, these people hardly speak English, and would rather chat in the back instead of serve the line that some patient customer has waited in for 45 minutes while one customer was served.
And after that 45 minute wait, what do you get? Who knows! You order one thing, and you always get something different.
The problem is that there is no accountability in their company whatsoever. As well, it is hard to expect someone to get the order right when they work for minimum wage.
I was always an avid “Timmies is Canadian and I am too, so no Starbucks for me! IT’S GROSS”. Yeah, until I got so tired of the poor service that I went to Starbucks one day just for kicks and to see what it was really like.
Honestly, I pay about 1-2 dollars more for a Venti White Chocolate Mocha than I do for a XL Mocha, and at least the one made from Starbucks is made from real cream and chocolate, and not some hot water mixed with powder.
If I wanted to pay $2-3 for a powder mix in water, I’d buy it at the grocery store and make it myself at home for much cheaper.
And as for flavour? Starbucks holds a much nicer coffee, and tends to wake me up a lot faster, while Tims coffee seems rather bland now.
And it wasn’t always that way, because Tims used to taste good. Donuts used to be made fresh. And customers used to love it.
Now it’s all pre-frozen, microwaved goodness with low quality coffee and bad customer service.
Just convert to Starbucks or a local coffee store for a week. Sure it might cost a little more, but you’ll feel much more appreciated, and it will taste better too!
Espresso Runner
Feb 21 2010
Well, I don’t understand Tim Hortons popularity….actually I can….people who don’t know the difference between below average coffee (spiked with cream-anything would taste good with cream) and a real coffee like Starbucks. Tim Hortons is offers poor service and less than average products. I would only stop when I was desperate for a java fix, but after being asked (at 3 different locations) if I wanted my change back!!!!!!!! I have NEVER been asked this question ever. Can you imagine how much the stores are profiting from this mentality as well as the other errors stated by many of you in earlier comments??????? I even called the head office and was just given a basic apology and that’s it. It still happened. Wow!!! McDonald’s brews great coffee and offers espresso and other great beverages. I encourage people to boycott Tim Hortons….and not to mention the lack of concern for the environment. And the coffee cup design is just horrible—-looks so cheap.
Pinky
Feb 22 2010
Well now! After reading all those negative comments about sales tax (who knew?) and all the mistakes, I am certainly going to pay more attention to the final tally when I order at Tim’s - or anywhere else for that matter! What an abomination! And why are we putting up with this? CBC Marketplace , are you listening? Let’s do a show on this and expose the blatant, in-your-face erros being committed by these places.
~Melanie~
Mar 7 2010
I personally think it’s BS. I worked there and I almost never made mistakes.
I think they just don’t care if they charge you more, because after they do and you pay it, they take it as a tip for themselves. Their coffee here seriously tastes like someone threw up in it, and they always mix up your order. They are just as bad as McDonald’s.
glenn miller
Mar 30 2010
In town, I went to a local T.H. for a medium coffee (.10 if you bring your container). With the discount, it should have been $1.18.
I gave the cashier (grade XI) $20.25, so not to have too much loose change. I received $17.63 change. I then showed her the change given and she said it was correct.
Upon arriving home later, I called the next town’s T.H. (owner owns both) and lodged my complaint. The manager wasn’t in, so I gave the other party my name, phone number and the location of the T.H. store (Nov/09).
I received no call back yet, but when I went back the following morning, the same person said, “I hear you laid a complaint about me.” I responded with “yes, I did.”
After that incident, I always use my credit card, showing time, date charges and amount. So if there are any errors, it’s on my receipt handed to me!
DBLDBL
Apr 7 2010
I THINK YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!(EXCEPT FOR BEV)
Steven Segal
May 7 2010
My kid is dumb, but not as dumb as the kids that work at Tim Hortons. (Apologies if any of your kids [or you] work at Tim’s).
Rayson Ho
May 9 2010
Anyone tried the Tim Hortons customer service hotline (1-888-601-1616)?? I googled and found this page:
http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/contact.html
Rayson
Canadianfreestuff
May 14 2010
Just to let you know, Tim Hortons prices can flex in different parts of Canada even with in the same province. There is a 10 cent difference per coffee within a 2 hours from the one I go to, and I know that between Alberta and Ontario its almost 25 cents per cup difference.
But that is life.
Mark
Jun 2 2010
Go check out the sites http://www.thetdlgroupltd.com and http://www.timhortonslies.wordpress.com. After reading this, I for one will never spend another dime at Tim Hortons. How does a company this big have someone own the name of the company that owns Tim Hortons?
bb
Jun 16 2010
Dear SL,
You get what you pay for… Tim Hortons is low end, quick, convenient…with long wait times (which most accept reluctantly because they are cheap).
Your request to merge cards would have been a unique scenario that didn’t deserve the amount of time and worry you have put into your complaint.
Move on…have a low end average coffee and enjoy your day.
H
Jun 16 2010
hi i work at a tim hortons , and yes we do make mistakes.
I am a superviaor and i will admit to making mistakes. However in drive thru, ppl order and leave without listening to the total or they talk on the phone and you have no idea if you get their order right because they don’t listen.
They will say “yes, that’s right” and then get to the window and check and it’s not right. That is not our fault!
If you have a loud truck, TURN IT OFF. We can’t hear a thing and we try to guess and then get yelled at if we don’t have it right.
We put on smiles for ppl but you all dont realize how hard that is when you still all complain about EVERYTHING.
At my Tim Hortons, if you complain about something being wrong with your sandwich, I will try to get that corrected as quickly as possible. The customers that make it easier are the ones that are happy. They make it easier for us to be happy.
Ppl come in and they don’t smile unless it’s a certain person. You smile at them, trying to get them to smile and they stare at you like you’re a freak of nature. Then they turn around and fill out a complaint that you, the employee, didn’t smile and were rude.
Well, here is my question. How do you expect us to be happy to you all the time when you are never nice to us?
Here is a tip: When you order and if you want what you ordered, ask them to repeat your order. For this to work, YOU need to listen when they repeat the order and if it’s not right, let them know and they will change it;)
P.S. All stores are competing to see who can get the most cars through in the least amount of time. I am sure your local Tim Hortons would appreciate it if you had your change ready and didn’t sit there putting your change away. These times are MON-FRI 6 am to 10 am. SAT 8 AM TO 1 PM.
B
Jun 29 2010
I have been an employee of Tim’s for 4 years now. Our store has been in the top 5 stores in Canada for the last ten years and our owner and manager are extremely proud of this fact.
I completely agree with H that we are human and make mistakes. The cashes sometimes have wrong info and that is because another human made a mistake.
I am not saying these mistakes should not be brought to our attention and fixed. I will be more than happy to go above and beyond to try to make you happy.
However, please don’t have the attitude that I try to mess up your order or I am pocketing the tax that I have no idea about.
Time and time again, I’ve given my tips to people who don’t have enough money or given free coffees to people when we got their orders wrong. For the most part, people are understanding, but there are a few who think we who work for minimum wage are out to get them or stupid.
As for the time card reloads and transferring, I understand why you wanted to do it and it was inconvenient. However, please don’t get mad at the cashiers as they were only doing their job. We do value your business.
It is policy not to merge the Tim cards at store level, because there were cases where people were stealing credit cards, buying Tim cards and merging accounts. The info would get lost and these people could not be traced, so Tim would have to cancel the credit card charge but still have an active Tim card and be out the money.
I do believe that is a flaw in the system, but that is not the cashier’s fault. Thank you for taking the time to listen.
Multiple Egg Baskets
Jul 2 2010
I was at their competitor yesterday and enjoyed a free latte because of their error. I was half way home before I realized that they didn’t charge me for the second drink. Oh well, with their over priced coffees I guess it balances out in the end.
Doug Frith
Jul 29 2010
So many of the examples involve Point of Sale systems, which came in because it was difficult for staff (particularly part-timers) to remember prices, specials, etc., and then make change reliably.
While those who work in these outlets aren’t out to “get” anyone, it’s unfair to the customer to treat their wallets with so little consideration.
In many cases, the customer can ill afford the excess charges, but we accept the rip-off to avoid the hassle. (Hey, we’re Canadian!)
Barbara Lord
Aug 19 2010
We are disappointed with Tim’s of late as we find we can purchase a 12 oz. cup of coffee at other coffee shops for the same amount of money & it tastes better.
We had coffee twice this past Monday & it was flavourless. The staff greeted us with sour faces (enough to turn the cream)& this does not make for a good day.
The stores in question were both in Alliston, Ontario.
I chose to have a cheddar cheese bagel toasted with butter. It was not what I would call toasted & it was soggy. Nothing like what is shown on TV.
We have enjoyed being Tim Hortons customers for many years & we have decided to pass.
Tim Hortons in Scarborough
Sep 7 2010
ALWAYS ask for a RECEIPT from TIM HORTONS…ALWAYS!!!
Receipts for 3 separate transactions between two locations over a 6 month period did not show the correct amount of cash tendered. While the customer received the proper change and the receipt payable was correct, the cash tendered shown was under or over that given.
Example: total payable $4.20, cash tendered $5.25, receipt shows cash tendered as $5…where did the other 25 cents go?
Their corporate offices were informed and a call back from their District Manager said if the wrong amount was entered, the cashier will balance it out afterwards. He also mentioned something about a tip jar, which had absolutely nothing to do with these transactions…I’ve never seen a tip jar at Tim Hortons.
So much for proper cash handling and creating a reliable paper trail. I hope TDL Corporate is watching these locations closely. Apparently 11 of these Scarborough franchises are owned by one person.
Tim Hortons Markham/Kingston Road
Sep 7 2010
Appears they are using some unknown butter (oil?) substitute for their bagels….certainly doesn’t resemble or taste like butter. This means, I’ve now removed 3 TH locations from my regular coffee haunts.